Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

There was a woman here not too long ago who built a theology around the idea that we were actually angels at one time, and we fell, and were consigned to be human, and that was how God chose to redeem these fallen angels. But only certain ones that fell, who didn't commit certain sins, but still needed punishment

I DO NOT subscribe to it, but she had some interesting points. One of which is this whole idea of God "knowing" us before He formed us in the womb. It begs the question, what does "knowing" us mean before He formed us in the womb mean?

God is our Father if we are born again, so OF COURSE He knows us intimately. He indwells us! So I don't understand what the hub bub is about. Sack- cloth may have worded his post a little awkwardly but I certainly don't think he meant it in a sexual way as WE think of sex. Satan has terribly distorted our view of sex to make it dirty.

A great study is the ancient Jewish wedding ceremony. The whole community would surround the dwelling of the newlyweds while the marriage was consummated, and they became "one flesh".

It is not the view of sex that is the problem.... God's intimate knowledge of us far exceeds how one would "know" one sexually if I were even to use that as a metaphor.

 

[jackrosie]

The purity in his true love......has been made into lust and sexual pleasures..in this world.

 

[jackrosie]

When a couple (born again) the Holy Spirit is there with the couple when they are “making love”. Isn’t he?

 

[EleventhHour]

But you do not understand that surrender does not mean receiving a gift. It means giving up. ANd the Japanese certainly did surrender and the whole world describes it as surrender even if you do not seem to know what that word means but think it means getting something which is very odd.

As I said there is a peculiar blindness that revents you from even understanding what the world "surrender"means. Very peculiar.

What you do not understand is that the "surrender" is stopping self-effort.

 

[EleventhHour]

You do not seem to understand that giving to God does not mean He is indebted to us.

Giving to God to earn salvation (your obedience) is indeed earning salvation.

Stop being obedient in your view and you are no longer saved.

So your dogma puts God in you debt making salvation a reward.

 

[jackrosie]

What you do not understand is that the "surrender" is stopping self-effort.

Surrender is trusting God?

 

[EleventhHour]

Surrender is trusting God?

Agree, we surrender/cease our self-effort and trust in God who gives the Gift of salvation.

When a person like @DorothyMae who believes salvation can be lost uses "surrender" it has a different meaning... because she believes a person can walk away.

 

[PennEd]

If you read what your own understanding and are not familiar with the scriptures a lot of the scriptures are going to be confusing it takes a very seasoned properly train pastor to teach it in its true form first history of the church the beginning Church fathers the development of the church and its different ages along with study of archaeology and the scriptures themselves translating from direct scrolls from the biblical Hebrew to the Greek knowing the standing and the order of the hermeneutics of the text that's why you must be studied show yourself approved and The scholar that would be call a teacher he would have to continually be educated throughout his whole life to be the best teacher of the Gospel at His best ability and simple-minded terms one can say the holy Spirit teaches us let someone have to have down the original foundation without gutting out essentials that built the whole storyline house without its proper building supplies cannot stand and that's why many of the Christianity are ready to go for not knowing their own Gospel or better yet not obeying their own Messiah of which mine is Yeshua hamashiach as you know him as Jesus the Christ the anointed.. and also without the proper education one gets confused over Sabbath's and different things in the scripture. As to exactly what was Jesus Christ teaching...But many things that are so advanced that can cause great damage if not taught in the sweat context that's why we have different denominations like the advantest also that jehova witnesses we have the Baptist and we also have the lutherans we have the Presbyterian and the whole point of this the church is divided because of such minds then at one point 4 step to progress but now there is a paradigm shift because knowledge has been expanded through proper research knowing your history is very important an to be educated essential therefore choose your pastor wisely because not all pastors were taught or eager to know more....

1 Corinthians 1:17-21 New King James Version (NKJV)
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the [a]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the [b]disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 For [a]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [b]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [c]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

 

[jackrosie]

Agree, we surrender/cease our self-effort and trust in God who gives the Gift of salvation.

When a person like @DorothyMae who believes salvation can be lost uses "surrender" it has a different meaning... because she believes a person can walk away.

I will leave dear Dorothy to you.....as she seems to use the bible to suit her own belief system......which is a million miles away from my being saved by God.

I pray that the Lord sets her free from that confusion....like he did me about my salvation.....I also see how dangerous it can be....pump what she believes into a young born again.....the damage doesn’t bear thinking about.

 

[EleventhHour]

It's futile, they are ready to attack, they don't reason or use rational arguments. Your meaning was not where they've taken it, that came from their own hearts, not from your words or intentions.

Whatever you say will be used against you, no matter what, even when they know what they assert to be untrue. Then they pile in on you which makes it apparent why we are not to engage them; Matthew 7:6.

This is the most saddening part: it is how the react, interact every single day on here for hours a day, nearly every single day of the year. Imagine how they are in real life: 1) They act completely different in public, which is hypocritical; 2) They act just like this in public which would not make for good fellowship, which is what goes on here. They are looking and apparently trolling for some kind of fight, they live for it.

I vaguely recall one was exposed on a social media account on a Christian forum, the behavior of the person in that social media account was just like their behavior on that forum, but with four letter words strewn in, and often. But whoever it was said it wasn't them, someone hacked the account. I bought that lame excuse for exactly no amount of time whatsoever. If it walks like a duck...

I have yet to see you air your dirty laundry out in public, but you sure have no problem doing that to others... but then it has to be that

way since we know in your "lordship salvation" Calvinist view, one must and will, prove by a straight trajectory of good

behaviour their salvation.

And btw many of us have been "sheltering in" having stopped working outside of home and have moved to an online format,

so no need to concern yourself with how I spend my time.

 

[jackrosie]

Good behaviour....haaaaaaaaa......the Lord knows what my behaviour has been like over the yrs....the thing he understood it......allowed me to be that way....venting my anger....he lovingly walked me through it all,helped me understand it......worked in and through me to get me to the place that I am today.

That was my own personal testimony to God.

I am still saved......what a joke that you have to be on your best behaviour every day.
In fact I believe it’s an insult..to what Jesus did for us on the cross.

 

[Magenta]

If people think they are on their best behavior while admitting they
sin often, one may wonder what their worst behavior would entail.

And now we have those who find fault with people sharing the gospel.
People who say they are Christian are complaining about how central
the Word of God is in other Christians lives, to the exclusion of other
things, as if that in itself were a sin. Again, one may wonder what
their understanding of the revealed written Word of God is. Not
so much in their dogmas, and doctrines, but in how they rationalize
and justify to themselves their hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[EleventhHour]

His comparison was between God knowing us in the same manner or intimacy as Adam knew Eve sexually....

I agree, the comparison is surely incorrect on so many levels.

 

[Magenta]

I agree, the comparison is surely incorrect on so many levels.

It is certainly questionable, and treads on ground better not walked.

 

[DorothyMae]

Surrender to God means we give on order to receive.

No it doesn’t. Surrender means you give up.

God is not put in our debt by what we have given Him.

No one says He is. Have you experienced giving Him something of value to Him?

I have yet to read one single post of yours where you understand this....why is that?

You don’t understand what I say?

[/quote]

 

[Lafftur]

If you read what your own understanding and are not familiar with the scriptures a lot of the scriptures are going to be confusing it takes a very seasoned properly train pastor to teach it in its true form first history of the church the beginning Church fathers the development of the church and its different ages along with study of archaeology and the scriptures themselves translating from direct scrolls from the biblical Hebrew to the Greek knowing the standing and the order of the hermeneutics of the text that's why you must be studied show yourself approved and The scholar that would be call a teacher he would have to continually be educated throughout his whole life to be the best teacher of the Gospel at His best ability and simple-minded terms one can say the holy Spirit teaches us let someone have to have down the original foundation without gutting out essentials that built the whole storyline house without its proper building supplies cannot stand and that's why many of the Christianity are ready to go for not knowing their own Gospel or better yet not obeying their own Messiah of which mine is Yeshua hamashiach as you know him as Jesus the Christ the anointed.. and also without the proper education one gets confused over Sabbath's and different things in the scripture. As to exactly what was Jesus Christ teaching...But many things that are so advanced that can cause great damage if not taught in the sweat context that's why we have different denominations like the advantest also that jehova witnesses we have the Baptist and we also have the lutherans we have the Presbyterian and the whole point of this the church is divided because of such minds then at one point 4 step to progress but now there is a paradigm shift because knowledge has been expanded through proper research knowing your history is very important an to be educated essential therefore choose your pastor wisely because not all pastors were taught or eager to know more....

The ONLY Teacher I trust is the Holy Spirit of God. I have no confidence in any rabbi, pastor, preacher, person, etc.

I enjoy listening to preaching and sermons but, the Holy Spirit has to bear witness to my spirit that what they are saying is true.

It is pleasing to God for each of us to search and study the scriptures with a heart and mind that diligently seeks and loves God’s Truth - and is a doer of His Word.

Yet, the ONLY Teacher of God’s Word is The Holy Spirit.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:27 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 2:27&version=KJV

 

[EleventhHour]

No it doesn’t. Surrender means you give up.
No one says He is. Have you experienced giving Him something of value to Him?You don’t understand what I say?

I couch everything you say within the NOSAS framework.

You cannot escape the fact that if salvation is not secure every act, belief, motive in "your" theory is an

attempt to secure/maintain your salvation by your effort.

The only thing you contribute is what made it necessary...sin


2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace,

 

[jackrosie]

The ONLY Teacher I trust is the Holy Spirit of God. I have no confidence in any rabbi, pastor, preacher, person, etc.

I enjoy listening to preaching and sermons but, the Holy Spirit has to bear witness to my spirit that what they are saying is true.

It is pleasing to God for each of us to search and study the scriptures with a heart and mind that diligently seeks and loves God’s Truth - and is a doer of His Word.

Yet, the ONLY Teacher of God’s Word is The Holy Spirit.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:27 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 2:27&version=KJV

Amen!!...Laff....the Holy Spirit has been my guide for the last 28ys..not once has he failed me.

 

[DorothyMae]

I couch everything you say within the NOSAS framework.

That explains it. A prejudice that moves you to interpret.

You cannot escape the fact that if salvation is not secure every act, belief, motive in "your" theory is an

attempt to secure/maintain your salvation by your effort.

I escape it and done so every day of my life since He saved me. It simply is. it true and you don’t understand my position.

The only thing you contribute is what made it necessary...sin


2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace,

As said, you don’t understand me.

 

[EleventhHour]

That explains it. A prejudice that moves you to interpret.I escape it and done so every day of my life since He saved me. It simply is. it true and you don’t understand my position.
As said, you don’t understand me.

Go back and read the thread every NOSAS person since the first page denies they are maintaining or earning their salvation.

Fact remains even by stating "we can walk away" you are still placing the result of your salvation in your own hands... in direct contradiction to scripture.

Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,

And He promises a direct unbreakable sequence .....

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.