We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ.

[Blik]

How can it not be "our will to sin" if "we choose to keep a sin instead of giving that sin to Christ" and "God lets us do that"?

I would agree if you said We still sin, but it is not His will for us to sin.

That's the whole "sin" problem ... we follow our own will instead of God's Will.

How can it not be "our will to sin" if "we choose to keep a sin instead of giving that sin to Christ" and "God lets us do that"?

I would agree if you said We still sin, but it is not His will for us to sin.

That's the whole "sin" problem ... we follow our own will instead of God's Will.

Paul gives us an example by telling how it works for him.

In Romans 7:15 to 20 Paul explains he does what he does not choose to do. He chooses to be righteous as God made him righteous but his nature takes over and he still sins, but his will is to not sin.

 

[posthuman]

Paul gives us an example by telling how it works for him.

In Romans 7:15 to 20 Paul explains he does what he does not choose to do. He chooses to be righteous as God made him righteous but his nature takes over and he still sins, but his will is to not sin.

yes,

therefore if he stumbles it's not him that stumbles, but sin that dwells in him, that is, in his flesh.

therefore

there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, and walk after the Spirit. Romans 6 & 7 is how we get Romans 8 -- and Romans 7 happens to come after Romans 6, not before.

 

[posthuman]

Paul on Romans 7-not a bio

it's all present tense, first person.

not past tense.
not 3rd person.

there's really only one honest way to read it. it's written exactly like he's talking about himself in the here and now when he wrote it. not about someone else 'before' -- and he puts it after he spends a chapter informing us about 15 times that by joining with Christ we have died, past tense, completed action. and he explains that because he has died to sin through the Spirit, even tho his flesh still struggles, it's not him, because he is no longer living after the flesh. from this he draws the conclusion that there is no more condemnation for us in Christ, because tho the flesh has sin, the spirit does not, and the Spirit is become for us life and freedom.

Romans 8 exists because of the facts of Romans 7, not despite them, and Romans 7 exists because of the facts of Romans 6. it must be this way because of the facts of Romans 1-5.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Romans 8 exists because of the facts of Romans 7, not despite them, and Romans 7 exists because of the facts of Romans 6. it must be this way because of the facts of Romans 1-5.

Correct. The epistle to the Romans is laid out in a logical sequence. It is essential for understanding the Gospel and Gospel Truth.

 

[Blik]

Correct. The epistle to the Romans is laid out in a logical sequence. It is essential for understanding the Gospel and Gospel Truth.

I agree and yet many people read this without the Holy Spirit guiding them in the attributes of the Lord so they read into it many strange ideas that are not of God, like the statement that God cancelled the law.

The tides of the ocean are one example to God's law, and they still operate with precision.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Paul gives us an example by telling how it works for him.

In Romans 7:15 to 20 Paul explains he does what he does not choose to do. He chooses to be righteous as God made him righteous but his nature takes over and he still sins, but his will is to not sin.

Romans 7:

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


My understanding is that we are to reckon our flesh (old man) dead to the sin which dwells in the flesh (Rom 6:11). This is a moment by moment, day by day decision we must make when the lusts of the flesh are stirred up. We are to take everything to the Lord and hand it over to Him. Sometimes we are successful at this and sometimes we are not. When we are not as successful as we'd like, we take that to the Lord and confess our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

James 1 tells us exactly how we end up being overcome by sin:

James 1:

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.


When we look at the Greek words for drawn away and enticed, we see hunting terms:

drawn away = where the metaphor is taken from hunting and fishing: as game is lured from its covert, so man by lust is allured from the safety of self-restraint to sin.

enticed = to bait a hook or set a trap with bait; (figuratively) entice a victim into a moral trap, luring them in through their own selfish impulses.


So, we are encouraged not to take the bait. God tells us we're going to face trials and temptations ... He tells us we can overcome by logically concluding (reckoning) ourselves dead to sin (Rom 6:11) ... remain firmly in the Lord Jesus Christ which is where we are safe from the onslaught of the trials of this life.

We are able to endure the temptation and receive the crown of life!!! what a promise!!!

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

yes,

therefore if he stumbles it's not him that stumbles, but sin that dwells in him, that is, in his flesh.

therefore

there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, and walk after the Spirit. Romans 6 & 7 is how we get Romans 8 -- and Romans 7 happens to come after Romans 6, not before.

Look at the last 2 verses of Romans 7. Paul goes through the whole scenario of what we want to do we don't do ... what we don't want to do we do, etc., etc.

Then he says O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Question: who shall deliver me from this dead body?

Answer: the Lord Jesus Christ!!!

Then read Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus


Our whole life is in the Lord Jesus Christ. He condemned sin in the flesh (Rom 8:3).

Why would we leave the Lord Jesus Christ (Who is our life) to live in that which He has condemned??? We don't live in condemned buildings in the here and now. But we leave the Lord Jesus Christ and go back into that which has been condemned. And for what? to "enjoy" the pleasures of sin for a moment?

And I'm not saying I'm perfect because I'm not ... these are just thoughts that run through my head when I read through these verses and/or when I stumble.

Thank God for His bountiful goodness to us and that He remembers that we are dust!!!

 

[posthuman]

Look at the last 2 verses of Romans 7. Paul goes through the whole scenario of what we want to do we don't do ... what we don't want to do we do, etc., etc.

Then he says O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Question: who shall deliver me from this dead body?

Answer: the Lord Jesus Christ!!!

Then read Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus


Our whole life is in the Lord Jesus Christ. He condemned sin in the flesh (Rom 8:3).

Why would we leave the Lord Jesus Christ (Who is our life) to live in that which He has condemned??? We don't live in condemned buildings in the here and now. But we leave the Lord Jesus Christ and go back into that which has been condemned. And for what? to "enjoy" the pleasures of sin for a moment?

And I'm not saying I'm perfect because I'm not ... these are just thoughts that run through my head when I read through these verses and/or when I stumble.

Thank God for His bountiful goodness to us and that He remembers that we are dust!!!

How are we delivered? By faith, not works. See chapters 1-5

Hiw does that work? We have died as far as the flesh is concerned, buried with Christ and living by Spirit. See chapter 6 and the first paragraph of 7.

Why is there no more condemnation?
Because having died with Him we aren't justified by the deeds of the flesh but by faith in God who justifies the ungodly and counts belief as righteousness in a man who does no works.

Chapter 7 is present tense. If it's not then salvation is by works & every failure in your flesh, every idle thought, everything that falls short of the perfect glory of God damns you and Christ died for nothing.

 

[posthuman]

Romans 7 is an amazing reassurance. God has done everything necessary for us to be saved, and the last thing that could condemn us is the body of flesh warring against the spirit of life in us.

But as it is that since we do not want to sin, even when we do it is sin dwelling in us, not us, because our life is not the life of the flesh. There is THEREFORE no more condemnation for us at all, if we are in Him, because Christ has condemned sin in the flesh and we, having died with Him, are not of the flesh any longer even tho we wait in it as a booth/tent/tabernacle for the final redemption of our bodies.

 

[DorothyMae]

Why do WE still sin?

Because the theology offered you is not the correct understanding. There is no "sin nature" in the Bible. That is a theological construct that Augustine invented. We do sin and sin dwells in us, that is true. Christ cleanses us from sin and asks us to surrender and walk through life with Him learning to make the choices He wants us to make changing us. But there is no sin nature in the Bible as an excuse for our sin. We sin because of the pleasure sin brings.

 

[posthuman]

We don't live in condemned buildings in the here and now.

Actually we kinda do.
We inhabit physical bodies that are in a constant and inevitable state of decaying back to dust.

Until the day of the resurrection, whe we will be completely redeemed, body and all. The whole creation groans in anticipation of it.

 

[posthuman]

Because the theology offered you is not the correct understanding. There is no "sin nature" in the Bible. That is a theological construct that Augustine invented. We do sin and sin dwells in us, that is true. Christ cleanses us from sin and asks us to surrender and walk through life with Him learning to make the choices He wants us to make changing us. But there is no sin nature in the Bible as an excuse for our sin. We sin because of the pleasure sin brings.

"in Adam all die"

It's not an excuse; it's a fact.

 

[DorothyMae]

"in Adam all die"

It's not an excuse; it's a fact.

Still no sin nature mentioned. No one in the Bible mentioned it as the concept had not been invented. That death came to the world through Adam is not in dispute. That all died because of their choice is not in dispute. That we have an inborn sin nature is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible. (Please don't quote me how David's mother sinned when David was conceived.)

 

[Guojing]

Still no sin nature mentioned. No one in the Bible mentioned it as the concept had not been invented. That death came to the world through Adam is not in dispute. That all died because of their choice is not in dispute. That we have an inborn sin nature is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible. (Please don't quote me how David's mother sinned when David was conceived.)

When Paul use the term sin, many times, it refers to noun and not a verb

 

[Peterlag]

Do we? Then why do we still sin?

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Peterlag]

The key is to understand that you are a trinity: you are a spirit, you have a soul, and you live in a body.

Like what the OP stated, its only your spirit that is reborn.

Your job is to renew your mind, which is your soul.

The renewed mind might be putting on the mind of Christ and thereby walking in the spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

Because our mind need to be renewed to what is already true in our spirit.

Your mind either agrees with the spirit, or the body.

Its either 2v1 or 1v2, and whichever side with the 2 will win.

Bingo.

 

[Peterlag]

The believer that continues in sin has not crucified the flesh with its desires and chooses to serve the flesh instead of Christ.

Walk by the flesh instead of the spirit. I will buy that.

 

[Peterlag]

because "We" are still focused on the world., its ideas of morals and ethics, its traditions, its systems, its values, tolerating gay marriage, abortion, prosperity theology for example. You have to turn your mind around and totally reject everything the world is offering, it has no value nor prospects for the future.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Peterlag]

Because it pleases the flesh. We are not immune to the temptation of physical pleasure. An addict always has a dopamine “scar” in the brain from the destruction of unchecked excess serotonin. The trick to staying on the path of righteousness is to keep your eyes focussed on the road ahead. It’s when we are tired and stop. Then we look back or down other paths where people seem to be laughing and having fun. As soon as you say, “Maybe if I just take a peak?” Then your feet are already heading in the wrong direction.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.