Catholicism vs Protestantism

Peterlag · Jun 18, 2020

Roughsoul1991 said:

Most of the entire Christian concept was put in play by the Catholics. The protestant was a spin off from the Catholics and much of the Catholic doctrine came with the new found protestant. Everything that you believe is mostly Catholic. You will call me a heretic if I teach anything else.

Reformyourself · Jun 18, 2020

Bede · Jun 18, 2020

Wansvic said:

Where does the Bible say that?

Answer: it doesn't . That is just your opinion.

Wansvic said:

That doesn’t say that the Bible is the final authority for three reasons:

1. It's says nothing about authority

2. It doesn't say that scripture is ALL that a man needs. Without it a man would not be perfect and thoroughly furnished. But it doesn't say it is sufficient in itself.

3. You claimed "The Bible is the final authority on every subject". Being thoroughly furnished for good works is not every subject.

Wansvic said:

Again that does not say scripture alone. As John said

"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book"(John 20:30)
and
"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." (John 21:25)

Scripture is not the totality of all that Jesus did and said. It never claims that is is, and John says it is not.

Wansvic said:

Those quotes do not address "God's truth concerning any subject". They are about crimes and misdemeanors being judged by men.

Wansvic said:

I've addressed this before - see post #2135.

You ducked it then. Will you duck it this time?

Wansvic said:

What point are you trying to make with those quotes. I see no relevance to antything I have said.

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2020

Bede said:

I am not trying to duck anything. From your responses, I believe your lack of confidence in the bible as the final authority to be the problem. I realize that many Catholics accept the pope(s) and/or "church fathers" opinions as authoritative. They are not.

God's truth on any subject CAN be found in His word whether one believes it or not. There is one truth and it resides in the inspired written word of God.

Jesus is the word of God manifested in the flesh. And He specifically stated that the word is what will judge all. Everyone has the freedom to accept or reject His statement. My confidence is and will always be in Jesus, not in the opinions of fallible human beings.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48

I've provided what the word says, and according to the word my job is done. God will shine the light on those who really want revelation of His truth:

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." 1 Cor 3:5-7

May God bless you.

Dan_473 · Jun 18, 2020

Jackson123 said:

I believe I did answer your question.
we may wish to remember that we are not interpreting letter by letter.

so what does satanic mean?
probably a reasonable meaning is "of or related to Satan".

Job 2:3 the Lord said to Satan, "Job still maintains his integrity, although you incited me against him, to ruin him without cause."

are God's actions here satanic?
they were incited by Satan.

but that doesn't sound right.
God is not satanic.

as we talked about, we are not interpreting letter by letter.

yes, there's going to be a one-world religion at some point in the future, and I think a lot of Catholics and Protestants are working towards it
Revelation 21:3 I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, God's dwelling is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

but are you talking about an evil, satanic one world religion?
yes, that would be satanic.

because he probably has his hand and all sorts of things.
he probably influences Baptists and Methodists as well.

I don't know if Satan can send his helpers wherever he wants, or how many helpers he has.

earlier in the thread, I believe you were talking with @Bede about whether Mary could hear billions of prayers at the same time.
I believe you had asked for a Bible verse.
well, to be fair, then we may wish to ask for a Bible verse that says Satan can be more than one place at once or influence billions of people at the same time.

big picture, I don't spend the lot of time thinking about Satan and his ways.
why focus on a loser?

"2 This is how you can know God’s Spirit: One spirit says, “I believe that Jesus is the Christ who came to earth and became a man.” That Spirit is from God. 3 Another spirit refuses to say this about Jesus. That spirit is not from God but is the spirit of the Enemy of Christ. You have heard that the Enemy of Christ is coming. And now he is already in the world.

4 My dear children, you belong to God. So you have defeated them because God’s Spirit, who is in you, is greater than the devil, who is in the world."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+4&version=ICB

Benadam · Jun 18, 2020

Mark 15:35

When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s
calling Elijah.

Seems like it wasn't unheard of to pray for the intercession of saints.

Bede · Jun 18, 2020

Wansvic said:

I have confidence in the Bible but not necessarily in your personal interpretation of it.
Moreover your claim that the Bible is the final authority is false.
The Bible has no authority. It is authoritative - meaning true and reliable.

Authority lies with people not a book.
Jesus said "“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (Mt 28:18).
Nowhere does scripture record Jesus giving that authority to a book. He gave it to his apostles there with him when he commisioned them "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Wansvic said:

Another false claim unsupported by scripture and therefore your personal opinion.
You said "I am not interested in peoples opinions."
Why should I be interest in yours?

Wansvic said:

As I showed John also says that not all of Jesus words are written down in scripture.

Wansvic said:

Your provision of what the word says falls short of your claims. You cannot substantiate them from scripture as you claim and so your claims are only your opinions.

Wansvic said:

And you also.

Dan_473 · Jun 18, 2020

Jackson123 said:

well, that passage that talks about being baptized by one Spirit into one body is from 1st Corinthians.
1st Corinthians is addressed
"To God’s church that is in Corinth,

To those who have been made holy to God in Christ Jesus, who are called to be God’s people.

Together with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place—he’s their Lord and ours!"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1&version=CEB

I think that would describe a lot of Catholics, and probably some Mormons.

I remember some years ago two lady Mormon missionaries game to my door.
the way one of them talked about Jesus, I'm pretty sure she had made Jesus her Lord.

did she have lots of wacky ideas in addition to that?
I'm sure she did.

but I don't think some wacky ideas necessarily stop the spirit from baptizing a person into the one body of Christ.

good thing, right?
otherwise, pretty much no one would be baptized by the spirit.

Dan_473 · Jun 18, 2020

Jackson123 said:

well, those who have made Jesus their Lord.

those individuals within them that belong to Christ, yes.

I don't think CCC 841 says that Muslims have made Jesus Lord.

"10 Now I encourage you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Agree with each other and don’t be divided into rival groups. Instead, be restored with the same mind and the same purpose. 11 My brothers and sisters, Chloe’s people gave me some information about you, that you’re fighting with each other."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1&version=CEB

my brother, are we in favor of dividing into rival groups?
are we involved in the "fighting with each other"?

now, I believe in the past you have brought up the idea that making Jesus Lord, or following Jesus, means following all the teachings of the Bible.

the issue that I see with that approach is that Presbyterians and methodists have different beliefs about "once saved always saved".
at most, one of them can be right.
which one is excluded from the body of Christ?

I like this idea
“in essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.”

Dan_473 · Jun 18, 2020

Bede said:

I remembered this when reading your post,

"12 “I have much more to say to you, but you can’t handle it now. "
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+16&version=CEB

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2020

Bede said:

Jesus is the word of God manifested in the flesh. "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God."(John 1:1)

Disciples were commissioned by Jesus to teach others to observe all that He commanded of them; convey His word to others.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48

Beings you disagree please share what you believe people will be judged by.

Bede · Jun 18, 2020

Wansvic said:

You are confusing The Word of God (Jesus) with the words of God written down.
John 1:1 doesn't say "In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God.

Wansvic said:

Exactly! The apostles were commissioned to teach others - who in their turn would teach others - who in their turn....
Paul instructs Timothy: "You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. " (2Tim 2:1-2).
Nothing about handing out Bibles and telling people to read them and make up their own beliefs from there.

Wansvic said:

I didn't disagree with that scripture. This is what I said:
"As I showed John also says that not all of Jesus words are written down in scripture."

Benadam · Jun 18, 2020

Bede said:

You are confusing The Word of God (Jesus) with the words of God written down.
John 1:1 doesn't say "In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God.

Exactly! The apostles were commissioned to teach others - who in their turn would teach others - who in their turn....
Paul instructs Timothy: "You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. " (2Tim 2:1-2).
Nothing about handing out Bibles and telling people to read them and make up their own beliefs from there.

I didn't disagree with that scripture. This is what I said:all
"As I showed John also says that not all of Jesus words are written down in scripture."

After all faith IS through hearing isn't it?

Dan_473 · Jun 18, 2020

Wansvic said:

for what it's worth, it seems to me that there are different meanings to the phrase "word of God".

there's this
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word.

and there's this
Luke 3:2 in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness.

does that mean that John received the entire Bible while in the wilderness?

Peterlag · Jun 18, 2020

Dan_473 said:

You lost me. I will give you the different administrations that are in the Bible. Hope this helps....

The first is called the Paradise administration. It was the time of innocence, the time before the fall that ends with Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of the original paradise.

The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.

The third is the Legal administration. It's suited only to Israel under the Law, and is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.

The fourth is the Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration. Both the Law and the Christ administration officially ended with the coming of Pentecost.

The fifth started on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the second chapter of the book of Acts. This is the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.

The sixth begins with the appearing of Jesus Christ, and the gathering together of the saints. Believe it or not, this administration ends with Satan destroyed, and the great white throne judgment.

The seventh is the Glory or Paradise administration, which will not have an ending.

Administrations must be adapted to the time periods in which they are carried out. The administration with Adam before the fall was different from the one with his immediate family after the fall. The administration with Israel “under the law” was carried out on different principles from the present administration of Grace. This present administration is different from the one that will characterize the return of Christ. The administration of Judgment will be different from the one that will belong to the administration of Glory, when all things shall be gathered together in one under the headship of Christ.

Bede · Jun 18, 2020

Peterlag said:

You lost me. I will give you the different administrations that are in the Bible. Hope this helps....

The first is called the Paradise administration. It was the time of innocence, the time before the fall that ends with Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of the original paradise.

The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.

The third is the Legal administration. It's suited only to Israel under the Law, and is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.

The fourth is the Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration. Both the Law and the Christ administration officially ended with the coming of Pentecost.

The fifth started on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the second chapter of the book of Acts. This is the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.

The sixth begins with the appearing of Jesus Christ, and the gathering together of the saints. Believe it or not, this administration ends with Satan destroyed, and the great white throne judgment.

The seventh is the Glory or Paradise administration, which will not have an ending.

Administrations must be adapted to the time periods in which they are carried out. The administration with Adam before the fall was different from the one with his immediate family after the fall. The administration with Israel “under the law” was carried out on different principles from the present administration of Grace. This present administration is different from the one that will characterize the return of Christ. The administration of Judgment will be different from the one that will belong to the administration of Glory, when all things shall be gathered together in one under the headship of Christ.

Is that Dispensationalism under another name?

Bede · Jun 18, 2020

Dan_473 said:

Good point

Not he didn't receive the entire Bible. Nor did he receive Jesus. In your example word of God might be better expressed words of God. Strong's definition is more like utterance or declaration.

Jackson123 · Jun 18, 2020

Dan_473 said:

In this context satanic mean organized by Satan.
One world religion may mean united all religion in the world.
In Semarang, Central Java indonesia, catholic priest (room Bodi) organize joint service between Christian and Muslim. The preacher was Muslim imam but the singer was Christian. This imam oftenly go to Vatican to meet some priest there.

Dan_473 said:

dont you say Muslim worship true God? True God is trinity isn't it?

Dan_473 · Jun 18, 2020

Peterlag said:

suppose we look at it this way,

I just did a word search for "word of God".
to my surprise, I didn't see anything in the results where that phrase is used to refer the Bible.
Of course, it could be there and I missed it.

so now I'm wondering, is the idea of calling the Bible the word of God a more recent idea?

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2020

Bede said:

Since we will be judged by the word it has to instruct man in all things. The bible does not have to record every single thing Jesus did to equip man. It must include only what is essential for mankind to understand and obey.

Catholicism vs Protestantism

Banned

Reformyourself

Guest

Bede

Guest

Well-known member

Senior Member

Banned

Bede

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Bede

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Bede

Guest

Bede

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member