Not By Works

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Guojing said:
Actually, how does one know whether Christ could have sinned?

Does he have the flesh nature that we all have as humans, but he could resist it somehow?
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Christ could have sinned the same way pre fall Adam could have sinned. He was tempted in every way, but unlike Adam, He did not choose sin. Not how every descendant of Adam, from father to father, has an inherited a sin nature.

Jesus did not inherit Adam’s Y chromosome. His Father is God.

Unregenerate man cannot choose to discard his sin nature. He must be born again to do that.
 
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dcontroversal said:
No, I don't agree...ADAM WAS PERFECT and GOOD when he was created. Without The sin nature but STILL could choose, did so and SINNED...JESUS was the 2nd ADAM with the SAME ABILITY...you can forget it...you will not convince me Jesus could not sin....the scriptures, when added = he had the ability as a MAN, THE SECOND ADAM to sin but DID NOT and your use of him being GOD falls flat on it's face in light of him EMPTYING himself, becoming a MAN in the likeness of Sinful flesh and NOT USING HIS EQUALITY WITH GOD to his advantage to overcome.....so....might as well move on to someone else or just accept the truth I just gave you man.
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Okay, as usual, we can agree to disagree here. This is another non-salvific issue
 
DorothyMae said:
I did after the thought occurred to me that dead faith (corpse to Stone) means it was an alive faith but now is dead. Once a faith always a faith is not true either.
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Dead in context means "inoperative" ineffectual" in the Greek, so your argument does not work, it is a faith that is not in operation.

James >>> teaching>>>> we need that our faith be alive in our works.
Abraham's faith grew by his work that he would offer up his own son.
And his faith was evidenced by those around him.

No loss of salvation is in view.

You know Dorothy all you are doing is denying YOURSELF the wonderful assurances, truth and treasure of God's word.

You are surely missing out.
 
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DorothyMae said:
Scripture says he was tempted as we are. That’s what it says.
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This popular verse used is often misinterpreted

This verse is not trying to teach us that, because He conquered temptation we can also. How could such a parallel exist? He had no sin nature. We do. He never sinned. We do. Our sin nature offers the tempter an inward point of temptation. This was missing in Jesus.

Hebrews 4:15 does not say that Jesus was tempted so that He could be our example, but so that He could sympathize with us. He was human. He got tired. He was hungry.

In this sense His temptations were real and in this sense He can understand when we, too, become weary. But this is vastly different from saying Jesus Christ could have sinned.
 
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Guojing said:
This popular verse used is often misinterpreted

This verse is not trying to teach us that, because He conquered temptation we can also. How could such a parallel exist? He had no sin nature. We do. He never sinned. We do. Our sin nature offers the tempter an inward point of temptation. This was missing in Jesus.

Hebrews 4:15 does not say that Jesus was tempted so that He could be our example, but so that He could sympathize with us. He was human. He got tired. He was hungry.

In this sense His temptations were real and in this sense He can understand when we, too, become weary. But this is vastly different from saying Jesus Christ could have sinned.
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If he wasn’t really tempted he can’t sympathize. Those, for example, who’ve never struggle with alcohol abuse don’t usually understand it. Jesus understands temptation because he was tempted. But I don’t engage in speculation as to God’s experiences as I have no information. I don’t speculate onifs in the past in God’s plan.
 
DorothyMae said:
If he wasn’t really tempted he can’t sympathize. Those, for example, who’ve never struggle with alcohol abuse don’t usually understand it. Jesus understands temptation because he was tempted. But I don’t engage in speculation as to God’s experiences as I have no information. I don’t speculate onifs in the past in God’s plan.
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My point in the last paragraph addressed your point above.
 
Guojing said:
So if you think like that, he cannot be 100% God while he was 100% in the flesh.

You cannot see the contradiction in your view?
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There is no contradiction.

Jesus 100% God became flesh 100% human to die for our sins.

If the groom did not die, the bride could not come back after the divorce. It is against Torah and Jesus will always keep His Torah :)
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
There is no contradiction.

Jesus 100% God became flesh 100% human to die for our sins.

If the groom did not die, the bride could not come back after the divorce. It is against Torah and Jesus will always keep His Torah :)
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Then you have to conclude that Jesus can still sin, while he is in heaven.

He is still 100% Man and 100% God now right?
 
dcontroversal said:
God sees the BLOOD and passes right over...HE ALSO SEES the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST....and GRACE outbounds our sin....!
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I doubt the victims or recipients of your sin say they bound in grace the more you sin against them. I’m pretty sure God sees the wrong done to them fairly clearly.
 
Guojing said:
Isa 61:10 might give you some clues there

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Some people say the Hebrew translation of the 2nd piece of clothing is saying that we are completely wrapped, 360 degrees, with Jesus's robe of righteousness.
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So under that cloak you can behave as you wish towards others??
 
EleventhHour said:
Everyone should seek the truth and yes not everyone knows knows the truth.

Some hear the truth and they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

In Romans 1:18 Paul writes "The wrath of God is against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness."

When God's righteousness is revealed to us, but we refuse to receive it, we suppress truth.
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This applies to the born again believer too. Pretty astute thoughts expressed there.
 
dcontroversal said:
No, I don't agree...ADAM WAS PERFECT and GOOD when he was created. Without The sin nature but STILL could choose, did so and SINNED...JESUS was the 2nd ADAM with the SAME ABILITY...you can forget it...you will not convince me Jesus could not sin....the scriptures, when added = he had the ability as a MAN, THE SECOND ADAM to sin but DID NOT and your use of him being GOD falls flat on it's face in light of him EMPTYING himself, becoming a MAN in the likeness of Sinful flesh and NOT USING HIS EQUALITY WITH GOD to his advantage to overcome.....so....might as well move on to someone else or just accept the truth I just gave you man.
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This seems like a strong argument thank you.
 
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dcontroversal said:
Think about these truths...

A. He emptied himself of glory and did not use the advantage he had as being equal with God, but BECAME A MAN

B. He was the second ADAM and BOTH were SINLESS but in flesh <--Christ the likeness of SINFUL FLESH

C. He was tempted IN ALL points as we are tempted for at least 40 days PLUS the three we read about.

D. IT was the Holy Spirit that drove him into the wilderness to be TEMPTED

E. HE WAS ALL MAN

F. IF HE HAD NO ability to SIN, there WAS NO PURPOSE for the temptations which the SPIRIT drove him into the wilderness for

He was TEMPTED IN ALL POINTS AS WE ARE TEMPTED YET WITHOUT SIN. <-this implies he had the ability to sin! BUT DID NOT!

The conclusions are obvious regardless of what MacArthur thought.
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Powerful thoughts!!! Good stuff d!!
 
dcontroversal said:
No, I don't agree...ADAM WAS PERFECT and GOOD when he was created. Without The sin nature but STILL could choose, did so and SINNED...JESUS was the 2nd ADAM with the SAME ABILITY...you can forget it...you will not convince me Jesus could not sin....the scriptures, when added = he had the ability as a MAN, THE SECOND ADAM to sin but DID NOT and your use of him being GOD falls flat on it's face in light of him EMPTYING himself, becoming a MAN in the likeness of Sinful flesh and NOT USING HIS EQUALITY WITH GOD to his advantage to overcome.....so....might as well move on to someone else or just accept the truth I just gave you man.
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Adam is a created being, Jesus is God, so you cannot compare them like that, they are not equivalent.

Yes, I know Romans 5:12-19 called Jesus the final Adam, but the context there was about federal headship.
 
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