Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Strange, I was trying to extend some empathy to you here on this thread, and here you go claiming that I am joining your opponents here in attacking you.

Be wise

 

[Guojing]

Be wise

and stay away from this echo chamber?

 

[mailmandan]

You did not understand peter at all

he was explaining a fact that false teachers like these never came to faith, they were dogs, and were never changed,it’s why they returned to their true nature because they were not changed

Amen! Those who are born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome.

*Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

He never said no such thing

way to add words to scripture.

It's called eisegesis - the interpretation of a text by reading into it one's own ideas.

 

[EleventhHour]

and stay away from this echo chamber?

Be wise to evil doctrine....but then you are in agreement.

 

[Guojing]

Be wise to evil doctrine....but then you are in agreement.

The beauty of being a dispensationalist is that you can understand either sides, where they are coming from.

 

[EleventhHour]

The plan of God was before time. Whosoever was willing by their own response was not. His love for all in Hell is undying. Doesn’t save them. As long as you continue in the faith. You leave, that’s a game changer. Salvation is not a calling and this does not talk about salvation at all. You cherry pick verses.
The ten foolish virgins were rejected because they had done nothing. The unwise steward had has gift taken and given to another like Judas. The servant who refused to forgive had his debt reinstated. No word about a permanent gift of salvation. The Jews, btw, had the Kingdom taken away from them,
You cherry pick isolated verses and paste them together thinking you are forcing God to do what he never promised if we don’t do our part.

So if a believer says they’re afraid they’ll not remain believing, you guys just tell them the theology so no worries. I would tell them to press in to the Lord praying for strength and so build a relationship.

Translation..... my faithfulness earns me my salvation.

I make and keep myself worthy.

The gift is really wages due and therefore God now is in my debt .....
For a work He already accomplished making His work of no consequence and my work more valuable than His.

Your dogma is far, far removed from the Gospel.

 

[OneOfHis]

God is NOT a blind fool

What a weak strawman from someone who holds a weak non biblical position.

No one here called God blind or a fool.

Your nose is held high considering your false doctrine.


Are you honest or a lying false teacher? Have you ever been banned? Is this the only cc account you've had?

 

[OneOfHis]

Apostates are people who had been Christians but who have taken a stand against Christ.

Nope, many tares can look like wheat for a time. Before men that is. God isn't fooled by a false believer like, maybe you would be.


He isn't a liar who says He has saved you from what you may still face.

 

[OneOfHis]

When Jesus said...."IT IS FINISHED" <- a legally binding accounting term.....PAID IN FULL

HIS BLOOD continually CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN and when GOD LOOKS AT ME.....he sees me through the blood of his SON and eternally JUSTIFIED!

Sad how people seek to establish their own righteousness rather than submit to Christ's....


Amen brother.

 

[EleventhHour]

Sad how people seek to establish their own righteousness rather than submit to Christ's....


Amen brother.

One word........... "Pride"

 

[Dino246]

The beauty of being a dispensationalist is that you can understand either sides, where they are coming from.

That's the nature of wisdom, not dispensationalism.

 

[Guojing]

That's the nature of wisdom, not dispensationalism.

Well to me, it’s about reading scripture and understand the literal meaning, as understood by the audience it was directed to.

 

[EleventhHour]

Where in the Bible does it say that “these that Peter speaks of followed Christ for self-promoting reasons, they were given the gospel but never received it by FAITH - they received by their FLESH for selfish gain that's why they are still "dogs" and "swine" returning to their own vomit and mire.”? Moreover, Peter does not tell us that they are still dogs and swine—he tells us that they were dogs and swine, but they were washed (in the blood of Christ) only to return to the mire.

It does not state they were "washed in the blood of Christ" you are adding that to the text.

They have heard but have not responded with faith to the grace of God. Balaam had encounters with God but he made the wrong choice.

Verse 22: It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

A person who has heard the Gospel and rejected it is in a worst state than if they never heard it.

 

[oyster67]

Those verses are dealing with confirmed apostates. Hebrews 6 and 10 is warning of the risk of apostasy. Apostates are not sons BTW. They are enemies of the Cross.

Many here do not believe that there is any such thing as apostacy.

 

[Magenta]

Many here do not believe that there is any such thing as apostacy.

Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs. One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate. From wiki So, someone can believe something about God without knowing God personally. I think an argument against apostasy may be that those who truly know God would or will never abandon their beliefs, as opposed to those who simply know about Him and accept what they are told without being fully convinced and/or believing in the depths of their hearts. God desires those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Going through the motions for the sake of social/peer acceptance just does not cut it.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Well to me, it’s about reading scripture and understand the literal meaning, as understood by the audience it was directed to.

It’s directed to an audience that has done this:

Psalm 119:73
[73] Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.

An audience that denies the spiritual aspect/types of/in scripture is an audience without the ability to rightly divide it.

There are many earthly explanations of spiritual things in the Old Testament. You just need to remove the vail of man’s understanding and learn to think spiritually (asking God for help in this regard).

Colossians 1:9
[9] we ...do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding

 

[EleventhHour]

Many here do not believe that there is any such thing as apostacy.

Many here deny the promises of God.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

God is NOT a blind fool! He sees every sin that Christians commit!

Amen!

Psalm 94:4,7,21
[4] How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the workers of iniquity boast themselves? ...[7] Yet they say, The Lord shall not see, neither shall the God of Jacob regard it. ...[21] They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood.

 

[Magenta]

Many here do not believe that there is any such thing as apostacy.

Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs. One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate. From wiki So, someone can believe something about God without knowing God personally. I think an argument against apostasy may be that those who truly know God would or will never abandon their beliefs, as opposed to those who simply know about Him and accept what they are told without being fully convinced and/or believing in the depths of their hearts. God desires those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Going through the motions for the sake of social/peer acceptance just does not cut it.

Wishing to add to this: when such a person as one who believes superficially leaves, they fulfill Scripture in that they show they did not truly belong in the first place (as per 1 John 2:19~ “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”). Perhaps they could be described as a carnal Christian in that they are/were still in the flesh, having never undergone the necessary Spiritual rebirth of being sealed by/with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God. This has helped me come to a more finely honed understanding of what a carnal Christian is. Thank you, Mr Oyster man

 

[DorothyMae]

Now, DorothyMae - if a new little "born again" baby believer dies, they die IN CHRIST - still saved.

Divorce........well, God hates divorce and He does hate infidelity. He dealt with Israel's infidelity with the Prophet Hosea.....I do seem to recall that Hosea purchased his adulterous wife back and redeemed her.....and God does the same for us!

According to Hebrews, he does not get crucified again for the harlot believer.

That which is born can die. Faith can die.

The Kingdom of God, the gift, has been taken away from Israel.