Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Dan_473]

Perhaps you ought to sit down with a lawyer when you read it.

First Vatican Council says, "

• the apostolic see and the Roman pontiff hold a world-wide primacy, and that
• the Roman pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter,
  • the prince of the apostles,

He you go. In black and white (actually colored here in red). Every pope that comes is the successor of Peter, the prince of the apostles.
Thereby this means that each and every pope that comes is the prince (or head) of the apostles.

Thereby the Roman Pontiff is the head apostle. Apostle (singular)

the quote as it reads in my browser
"...which must be believed by all faithful Christians, namely that
the apostolic see and the Roman pontiff hold a world-wide primacy, and that
the Roman pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter,
the prince of the apostles,
true vicar of Christ,
head of the whole church and
father and teacher of all christian people.
To him, in blessed Peter, full power has been given by our lord Jesus Christ to
tend,
rule and govern
the universal church."
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum20.htm

I post that because changes in formatting can amount to changes in punctuation, imo.
and a change in punctuation can result in a change in meaning (you may have noticed our "comma" discussion earlier on this thread).

I think the simplest way to talk about all the issues relevant to this discussion is this:
I think both "Eastern Orthodox" and "Catholic" leaders were involved in writing the Nicene Creed.
*if* one is pledging allegiance to a group of leaders, which group of leaders would it be?

 

[Benadam]

Bible writer not write how he die, mean not important, the writer know what people need to know, his teaching, not how he die, what kind of shoes he wear etc

How he died would be foremost on the minds of those who love Him I would think. There are people who wrote about it and they agree about how it happened.

 

[Reformyourself]

In your view, what did people do prior to the printing press when Bibles were super expensive?

In the uk. The priest read the mass to the laity in Latin.

 

[Benadam]

Paul not preach to the church build by other

Why would you think Peter would have a problem giving Paul freedom to do as He pleases? That Paul had something to add there I have no doubt.

 

[Dan_473]

That is not referring to the Catholic Church as a whole but the particular church in Rome, of which Pope Francis is the Bishop, which is the mother church of the whole Catholic Church.

I see what you're saying.

at the same time, if
Roman Church isn't a negative term, and
Catholic Church isn't a negative term,
then it doesn't seem to me like
Roman Catholic Church
should be a negative term, although it might demonstrate a misunderstanding of Catholic teaching.

 

[Dan_473]

TODAY, we are enslaved under Roman Pontiff (Roman Church).

seriously?
and I'm asking honestly, do you honestly feel enslaved under the Catholic Church?

here in the USA, the Catholic church has virtually no secular power.

do you mean Catholic voters?

do you believe the Vatican is pulling strings that control the US Congress?

 

[Dan_473]

Because at the end of the day, Romans 10:9 tells us that "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." So, I bet there are many Catholics who have done this...

hi maryjohanna!

I hear what you're saying.

there are some Catholic practices that I find troubling, though in some cases things I previously thought unbiblical I now see as not as clear-cut as before.

the Nicene Creed is often recited during Mass.

"I/We believe...
in one Lord, Jesus Christ...
On the third day he rose again..."

of course, if a person doesn't honestly believe those things, they shouldn't say that they do!

 

[garee]

In your view, what did people do prior to the printing press when Bibles were super expensive?

I would offer. The ones that walked by the faith of Christ as it working in them. It the power of the gospel came from hearing God. . Not every thing he ever spoke in the heart of mankind was written down . But the things written provide the faith to helps us differentiate how to hear by faith or what the Spirit is saying to the churches. Ears to hear his understanding. . . not ours.

That is shown with Peter who had ben forgiven for his denial again and again .Christ called him to repent again.

The father of lies grabbed a hold Peter's heel an opportunity to build on his own tradition. . the oral traditions of mankind. Peter moved by the spirit of lies went to town and proclaimed John would never die as if his flesh was not corrupted.

Jesus worked and revealed to us the lie and said if every time he had to do the work of dispelling the work of the father of lies .W The eath would ned to be biger the the Sun. One warning would seem to be enough to not go above all things written in the law and prophet .the two witnesses of God

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. John 21: 22-25

Catholiscim choses Peter the denier . Most other Christians "Christ" The unseen eternal faithful One

 

[garee]

hi maryjohanna!

I hear what you're saying.

there are some Catholic practices that I find troubling, though in some cases things I previously thought unbiblical I now see as not as clear-cut as before.

the Nicene Creed is often recited during Mass.

"I/We believe...
in one Lord, Jesus Christ...
On the third day he rose again..."

of course, if a person doesn't honestly believe those things, they shouldn't say that they do!

They believe those things as a written source of faith. The law of the fathers or what Jesus called a brood of vipers having another written authroity, the oral traditions of men .It takes away the true source of faith (as it is written,

They must teach there are two different kinds of authorities as one Good teaching Master. Catholicism under the lying spirit of ; "Did God really say?" teaches a non venerable pew Catholic can serve two Good Masters. as one Sacred tradition .And even in the building of that "law of men" They make the Sacred hands of corrupted mankind the first mentioned saying together its equals. "One Devine Sacred God".

The gospel as it is written can shine a light in that dark place . God's two witnesses remain. The law and the prophets

The "law of the fathers" same kind the legion Jewish fathers used to lord it over the faith of others. It becomes the foundation of necromancy seeking after the spirits of the departed. like that of Aul

Paragraph # 80

"Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."

Same goal: "and you shall surely not die" . The goal of Peter's lie that he spread around town (Johns flesh is not corrupted)This was until the true spirit of prophecy prevented that kind of oral tradition of sinners exposing the lies of the father of lies.

 

[Dan_473]

1 how do you know the priest taught about true God

well, if we read the context
2 Kings 17:25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them. 26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land. 27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land. 28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.

do you see where it has LORD in all capital letters like that?
that's how the King James translates the Divine name, the name of the true God.

"the LORD sent lions among them"
that's the true God doing that, and that's the problem that needs solving in the story.
the solution:
"one of the priests... taught them how they should fear the LORD."

2 say the priest taught about true god, is that nessacery mean they worship true God?

I think the King James saying "fear the lord" would include worshipping the Lord.

notice how the contemporary English translations usually say
"taught them how to worship the LORD."

does it mean they were doing it perfectly?
no, they still had lots of issues

I encourage you to read the entire story in the link below.
I think this will be a good translation, since you don't like to go letter by letter.
this translation gives a good presentation of the big picture, imo.
"33And though they worshiped the LORD, they continued to follow their own gods according to the religious customs of the nations from which they came. 34And this is still going on today. They continue to follow their former practices instead of truly worshiping the LORD and obeying the decrees, regulations, instructions, and commands he gave the descendants of Jacob, whose name he changed to Israel."
https://biblehub.com/nlt/2_kings/17.htm

 

[Dan_473]

t is the Holy Spirit who has led me to feel this way.

imo, this is the key issue as to whether a person joins/remains Protestant or joins/remains Catholic (or Orthodox).

those who believe that the holy Spirit guides them personally as they read the Bible will probably be Protestant.

those who believe that the holy Spirit guides the entire church as a group will probably be Catholic (or Orthodox).

 

[Dan_473]

In the uk. The priest read the mass to the laity in Latin.

right! people weren't reading the Bible for themselves, and they might not have been able to understand Latin.

so the idea of God revealing his truth to individual people as they read the Bible for themselves wasn't really possible until the printing press and most people learning how to read.

 

[Dan_473]

The ones that walked by the faith of Christ as it working in them. It the power of the gospel came from hearing God. . Not every thing he ever spoke in the heart of mankind was written down .

I hear what you're saying,

then it wouldn't be Sola scriptura,

it would be scripture and spirit

and if a person didn't have access to the scriptures, it would be just spirit.

 

[Dan_473]

They believe those things as a written source of faith.

on the subject of salvation, the issue would be whether the person believes them or not.

I don't think it would matter if they read words or heard preaching.

 

[Benadam]

Same goal: "and you shall surely not die" . The goal of Peter's lie that he spread around town (Johns flesh is not corrupted)This was until the true spirit of prophecy prevented that kind of oral tradition of sinners exposing the lies of the father of lies.

The spoken Word that proceeded from the mouth of Jesus is an eternal reality that entered time and history.
Why would an eternal reality become temporal?

 

[garee]

The spoken Word that proceeded from the mouth of Jesus is an eternal reality that entered time and history.
Why would an eternal reality become temporal?

Thanks I can try.

Sorry for the rambling

The eternal does not become the temporal. The temporal is used as a shadow of the glorious unseen eternal . We mix the temporal and attribute the result to the eternal . Like Paul in Acts 14 . He spoke the words given to him, the gospel, it worked in the person as a miracle.

Some attribute the eternal work of God to the temporal as if it was the eternal. Those who had no faith (unseen understanding) made the apostles into gods in the likeness of man . that revealed they had no unseen understanding working form within.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

I would think one of the more valuable tools needed to rightly divide (Mix faith) and not multiply add or subtract. That tool he has freely given us. So that we might seek after his approval according to his loving commandment that we study rightly dividing and unlock the mysteries hid in parables.. .

The 20/20 vision in 2020. last year also lol

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The same kind of spirit is revealed in Romans 1 using invisible things of faith. . . understood by the temporal things. But not in respect them. a warning to those who turn that spirit upside they are shown as under the wrath of God. They have no rest with Christ who does work in us who do walk by faith making our burden lighter..

Romans 1 :20-21 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

They glorified him not as God but as man. Exposing the dark hard heart of natural unredeemed, faithless mankind. ,

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

seriously?
and I'm asking honestly, do you honestly feel enslaved under the Catholic Church?

here in the USA, the Catholic church has virtually no secular power.

do you mean Catholic voters?

do you believe the Vatican is pulling strings that control the US Congress?

If you tell most people they are slaves to sin and they will reject that statement.

 

[Jackson123]

How he died would be foremost on the minds of those who love Him I would think. There are people who wrote about it and they agree about how it happened.

Ok brother, my question is why bible writer not write how Peter die?

If that is urgent don't you think Holy Spirit not ask Bible writer to write it?

 

[Dan_473]

If you tell most people they are slaves to sin and they will reject that statement.

do you mean that the Pope influences our behavior in the same way that our fleshly nature influences our behavior?

 

[Benadam]

Thanks I can try.

Sorry for the rambling

The eternal does not become the temporal. The temporal is used as a shadow of the glorious unseen eternal . We mix the temporal and attribute the result to the eternal . Like Paul in Acts 14 . He spoke the words given to him, the gospel, it worked in the person as a miracle.

Some attribute the eternal work of God to the temporal as if it was the eternal. Those who had no faith (unseen understanding) made the apostles into gods in the likeness of man . that revealed they had no unseen understanding working form within.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

I would think one of the more valuable tools needed to rightly divide (Mix faith) and not multiply add or subtract. That tool he has freely given us. So that we might seek after his approval according to his loving commandment that we study rightly dividing and unlock the mysteries hid in parables.. .

The 20/20 vision in 2020. last year also lol

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The same kind of spirit is revealed in Romans 1 using invisible things of faith. . . understood by the temporal things. But not in respect them. a warning to those who turn that spirit upside they are shown as under the wrath of God. They have no rest with Christ who does work in us who do walk by faith making our burden lighter..

Romans 1 :20-21 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

They glorified him not as God but as man. Exposing the dark hard heart of natural unredeemed, faithless mankind. ,

Did that expression of the Word end on earth?