Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

How am I supposed to stir them up to good works?

Yes we are to encourage one another

What is your understanding of good works?

Good works are the fruit if being in Christ and Christ in us.

What role do good works play in my salvation?

None

How should I start doing good works?

Start?

Will I go to heaven if I receive salvation by grace through faith yet be found guilty of murder, raping, etc?

Do you think your deeds will save you?

I am saved but the Bible says if I confess my sins He is faithful and just to forgive me. Does that mean I will be found guilty at the judgement seat provided I don't confess my sins?Will receiving salvation by grace through faith save me on that day without having to confess my sins on earth?

To confess means to come into agreement with God.
Born again believers do not go to the judgement seat.

As for the rest .. not sure what you are hoping to understand.

 

[Pulie]

They

well I did not accuse you of saying they were, although i believe they were

yes, if they are saved, then they are saved, to,say thei salvation can be lost is to declair they were never really saved to begin with,

Okay let's agree to disagree to a certain extent or entirely so because we are going to argue forever.

I believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ, the result of it being the fruit of the Spirit. I do everything out of love for God because He first loved me. For me it's not a burden. I open my heart to the word of God and the Holy Spirit to make me more Christelike.

My greatest desire is is to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings. I always have the assurance that one day my physical body will be glorified.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They


Okay let's agree to disagree to a certain extent or entirely so because we are going to argue forever.

I believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ, the result of it being the fruit of the Spirit. I do everything out of love for God because He first loved me. For me it's not a burden. I open my heart to the word of God and the Holy Spirit to make me more Christelike.

My greatest desire is is to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings. I always have the assurance that one day my physical body will be glorified.

Then why would you claim a person in your position and belief may in the end, not be saved?

 

[Duskey]

How so?, kindly break it down for me, also support your view with scripture.

You asked if you would go to Heaven if you receive salvation . . .

If you receive salvation yes you are going to Heaven. You can’t possibly receive salvation and not go to Heaven. John 14 shows us that Jesus prepares a place for us.

 

[Duskey]

The Kingdom of heaven is very broad, why not narrow it down to "They motivate people to do good works, but for the sake of love, not for keeping salvation".

Does "good works" which is mentioned in the Bible make you feel uncomfortable?

I find semantics to be very amusing and by no means does it make me feel uncomfortable. What you call good works, I call bringing the Kingdom of Heaven here to earth. Think Big! 😉

 

[VCO]

Wha


Please explain the meaning of OSAS?

When GOD SAVED US, it stands for ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. MANY so called Christians do not even know how a PERSON is saved. YET the NARROW GATE PROPHECY, TEACHES:

Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction {the destruction of hades/hell}, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
{Repentance, and willing submission to JESUS as LORD (master) out of AGAPE LOVE.}

It says FEW FIND IT, NOT MANY FIND IT. So what is the problem ? ? ? They want a SAVIOR, but FEW want a LORD of their lives.

 

[Duskey]

There are stories of people who were saved, died and went to hell

Where are these stories in the Bible?

 

[DorothyMae]

This phrase right here ..... very telling?

Have you been a Christian Chat member before this with a different name?

No, I have not. I am not the first to say that scripture ought not to be broken. There are many of us.

 

[DorothyMae]

I want to address that statement that I put in RED in your post.

You did not really read all of my post did you ? ? ?

ONCE WE ARE BORN AGAIN, HE CHANGES our HUMAN SPIRIT to I WANT TO DO THOSE THINGS, so if you NEVER WANT TO DO THOSE THINGS, OR I HAVE TO DO THOSE THINGS, you have deceived yourself into believing you are already BORN AGAIN, in my opinion.

Only BORN AGAIN Christians go to Heaven.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, {Equals BORN AGAIN to OUR BELIEF.}

you will keep My commands. {Does not imply PERFECTION in the Greek, but an ongoing striving to keep.}


1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,
{It means it really is a BURDEN, unless YOU ARE REALLY BORN AGAIN, THEN THE LOVE IN US REMOVES THE BURDEN of an ACT of AGAPE LOVE.}


You see, most of us on this site are GENUINE OSAS BELIEVERS, and FRIENDS, and YOUR IMPRESSION of what OSAS means, is purely false.

The attitude you run into is purely Frustration. BECAUSE, we have been here throughout approximately the pasts 3 years, and have been watching the here a little while then move on, the parade on non-OSAS fans, that come in and START ATTACKING our Beliefs, with the same misinformation about what we believe and don't believe in. AND IT IS ALMOST ALL FALSE INFORMATION. Do not worry, I am not upset, as I have a thicker hide than most, because I used to be a Volunteer Chaplain in two of the California supermax prisons. I am 71 years of age, and I HAVE Heard what you want to believe about us, over, and over, but honest it is FALSE INFORMATION. Do me a favor, Ask any question you want, but loose the accusatory statements about what you want to believe OSAS teaches and believe, because almost all of it is a pure Falsehood. I hope you will soon learn what we really TEACH AND BELIEVE, and then when you make a statement about OSAS it will be the absolute truth. I do not might that you don't believe the way I do, but this constant False Statements about our Beliefs, should become the TRUTH eventually, I PRAY.

My wife and I moved to a lot of towns from Nebraska, to California, to Nevada, and now after my wife passed away, I moved back to Nebraska. So I have been in a lot of Evangelical type of CHURCHES. Community Churches, Evangelical Free Churches, Independent Baptist, Southern Baptist, Grace Bretheran Church, Bible Churches, Evangelical Lutheran Church, Bible Fellowship Churches, and ALL OF THEM TAUGHT THE CORE OF OUR BELIEFS, JUST LIKE I DO. Therefore, your understanding of what YOU THINK OSAS Doctrines are, is totally in error.

Thank you, for letting me EXPLAIN some of our beliefs. Ask any question about what we BELIEVE, and I will tell you the truth, so you can discard the FALSE STATEMENTS.

Dear VCO,
I did not read all of your post as I said I did not have much time. I have more now. My apologies for my lack of time.

Now, you are in my age category which is nice. In those many decades of being among Christians, do you see that they keep the commands of God and the are not a burden? Do you see a greater degree of keeping the commandments, that is, the ones who have been saved decades find it easy to keep the commandments and this is noticable? If your position is correct, this is what we ought to see in all Christians. Do you see this?

I am not far behind you in age and I am sorry about the loss of your wife, by the way. I have not seen an increase in holiness or sanctification in the older believers. I am trained in science and so test theories in real life. The OSAS idea that believers simply WILL love God and really want to do the commandments in real life is not something that stands out from observation. The responses I get from OSAS believers has been demonstrated on this site already. Their posts to non-OSAS believers is very nasty and personally insulting. There is no love nor forgiveness nor tolerance and I can only say I am glad we are not in the same room together. They come at me with a verbal 2 by 4. And this is the most common response.

What does it show me? The fruit of OSAS is bad. If one thought about it, one can see why. Make God responsible for our obedience (sanctification) and, of course, obedience is rare. (He does not accept that responsiblity.) If there were no penalty for breaking traffic laws or we lived by the idea that when you get a license you will naturally want to follow the traffic laws, well, you can imagine the outcome.

You seem rather civil so I will point out that I am not talking about working for salvation but for some reason, the OSAS believers think that anytime anyone suggest one needs to obey God, that is what they instantly jump to and accuse me of saying. My conclusion is OSAS builds up a blindness in those who embrace it such that they can only see Once Saved Always Saved or Works Salvation. That is it. If one is not in one category then one is the other. This too is a bad fruit of the theology.

Well, thanks for taking time to read this. Again, I have never told anyone in my life to work for salvation. What I say is that one will never know God unless there is obedience in the life. If one is not submitted to Him in real deeds and words done and left not done, He will not share his ways with that person. They can go to Heaven but they will not understand God. I have no idea what kind of label is to be put on that but it is not Works Salvation.

 

[DorothyMae]

Then no one will be saved period

you having me on ignore will not change that fact.

I would have laughed out loud but it is four in the morning and everyone else is sleeping. I have no intention on putting you on ignore. I recall you were not very grateful, despite your name, for a matter we discussed earlier but I did not put you on ignore.

You do not see the difference between being saved, that is sins forgiven, and knowing God. The former requires repentance and asking God's forgiveness for sin. The latter requires a minimum degree of obedience to Him. This is not something is taught much from the pulpit as I suspect that many pastors do not understand God either and so do not even know it exists.

I have noticed on sites like these that there are believers, some, who long to know and understand God. They are saved, sometimes long ago, and have an active prayer life and so on, but they do not understand God and long to do so. I am giving them the key to understanding God.

Remember this if you will, when you hear a speaker say that we cannot understand God, we do not understand God, or they do not understand God, that this is the exact point I am addressing. I am endeavoring to give these hungry brothers and sisters the hope that in this life they can understand God and how.

 

[DorothyMae]

This is what Jesus stated is required.......

John 6:28-29 - "Then said they unto him, WHAT SHALL WE DO, that we might work the works
of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, THAT YE BELIEVE
ON HIM whom he hath sent."

Do you understand salvation?

I understand God. This has required going beyond the starting point of merely believing as a mental choice. I had to obey Him. I had to be kind to those who were bashing me. I have to forgive others. I had to be silent when I wanted to speak. The list is quite long. But over decades of obeying the Holy Spirit, He has shown me HIs ways and I understand Him. I know why He does what He does, what He does and what He does not do and why. Sometimes I think that maybe others also long to know Him and wonder if it is possible in this life. It is.

 

[DorothyMae]

yep same drivel Least used to say....No...what I seen was your insertion of the word "works" to imply holiness = works

Get some honesty....not looking good for you yet AGAIN!

Please get my quote and show me where I inserted the word "works" in there.

But let me ask you, do you think holiness has nothing to do with the choices we make in how we treat others? I mean, there is just about no teaching on this that I hear (which is little, I admit) on holiness. Maybe you think it is what happens when the music surges in church and spotlight in fixed on the performers, opps, worship leaders on stage and you are moved to have warm and tender feelings towards God and man around you. What is holiness in your thinking?

 

[DorothyMae]

Please show me in the Bible( New Testament)where people were saved, lived an ungodly life, never repented etc and went to heaven. Don't show me people that were saved, made mistakes/sinned,repented and went to heaven.

There are stories of people who were saved, died and went to hell( they blame that to not living a godly life). Then resurrected from the dead and given a second chance. Well I cannot tell if their telling the truth or not but that's their experience.

Who in the Bible is described as dying and going to heaven besides the man in the story Jesus told, that is, Lazarus, which some people think doesn't describe a real man anyway?

 

[DorothyMae]

You called it... and then I started looking too....LOL

You and dcontro are wrong. I was never on this site. Are you now embarassed? Any moderator with access to my IP address can tell you I was never on here before I logged in as DorothyMae. Would you believe them if they told you that you are both wrong?

 

[EleventhHour]

You and dcontro are wrong. I was never on this site. Are you now embarassed? Any moderator with access to my IP address can tell you I was never on here before I logged in as DorothyMae. Would you believe them if they told you that you are both wrong?

Not really embarrassed, won't be the first time I am wrong and I am sure it won't be the last.
With a VPN one can easily hide their location....fyi.

At any rate, does not change the fact that works do not have any part in salvation.... doing good works only come after we are saved.

 

[DorothyMae]

Not really embarrassed, won't be the first time I am wrong and I am sure it won't be the last.
With a VPN one can easily hide their location....fyi.

At any rate, does not change the fact that works do not have any part in salvation.... doing good works only come after we are saved.

You really ought to have apologized instead of accusing me falsehood in registering and your answer is to accuse me of perhaps manipulating matters so it looked like I was new. I have no idea what a VPN is but would you believe it? You already think low of me.

If you are satisfied with your position, then there isn't much to discuss. I was wondering if some would like to know and understand God.

 

[Pulie]

You asked if you would go to Heaven if you receive salvation . . .

If you receive salvation yes you are going to Heaven. You can’t possibly receive salvation and not go to Heaven. John 14 shows us that Jesus prepares a place for us.

So I am going to heaven if I am saved but found guilty of being a serial killer and don't even care about my actions? If yes please provide me with scripture so I can do thorough investigation.

I think that was my question

Answer my question adequately, support it with scriptures.

 

[Pulie]

I find semantics to be very amusing and by no means does it make me feel uncomfortable. What you call good works, I call bringing the Kingdom of Heaven here to earth. Think Big! 😉

Well I don know what semantics is but hopefully your not amused by the Bible when it says we should stir each other to good works.

Big in this context is very complicated but thanks for the tip. So every scripture that says good works you substitute with Kingdom of heaven so that you are not amused.

I wonder what happens to you when you read the book of Revelation because I see good works/ deeds mentioned a lot. You also laugh?

 

[DorothyMae]

No one is preaching against good works genius!! And if you actually read more than the OP without making bias mouthy comments you would actually grasp the truth of this thread...but hey, carry on.....!!

This is exactly what I mean by the continual preaching of doing good works in a very negative light. Those, like you, who embrace it are free to behave badly (as above) towards others as being kind to others is not encouraged. No one is encouraged to do any works from emphasizing this position and the fruit is quickly seen.

 

[DorothyMae]

End of story?

I’m very sorry to hear this. It’s likely due to so much preaching on just being saved (from hell, that is) and a lot of preaching on don’t count on doing anything good (works) for anyone to benefit you at all. That it blesses others is not preached it seems.