The absurdity and heresy of Preterism
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Actually, a better more accurate saying would be, "the church does not appear in on scripture during the narrative of God's wrath in the book of Revelation."
This is why I told you that you, along with others, do not understand the severity and magnitude of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment, which will fulfill God's wrath. With just the 4th seal and 6th trumpet, approximately 5/8's of the earths population will have been killed within the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. And that does not include the fatalities that will result form trumpets 1, 2 and 3, nor from seven bowl judgments.
Please show us the scripture that states 1). where the church is even mentioned in the narrative of God's wrath, i.e. Revelation 6 thru 18. And 2). Show us the scripture which states that God protects the church during the time of His wrath.
What you are not getting, is that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect the entire world. It will be the worst time in the history of the world. There will be no ark to get on and no small city to flee to. The entire world will be affected by these plagues of wrath and which is their purpose.
Like I keep saying, the church is never mentioned again after the end of chapter 3 and during the narrative of God's wrath. If you think that the church is on the earth during the time of God's wrath and is protected, what do you make of the following:
"Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation."
If the saints in the scripture above was referring to the church, how then is the church protected, since the scripture states that the beast is given authority to make war against them and to conquer them, not to mention many of them being beheaded? That doesn't sound like protection to me. However, there's no need to search for an answer, because the saints that are mentioned above, is referring to the great tribulation saints who are revealed in Rev.7:9-17. These are those who will have become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath.
This is why I told you that you, along with others, do not understand the severity and magnitude of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment, which will fulfill God's wrath. With just the 4th seal and 6th trumpet, approximately 5/8's of the earths population will have been killed within the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. And that does not include the fatalities that will result form trumpets 1, 2 and 3, nor from seven bowl judgments.
Please show us the scripture that states 1). where the church is even mentioned in the narrative of God's wrath, i.e. Revelation 6 thru 18. And 2). Show us the scripture which states that God protects the church during the time of His wrath.
What you are not getting, is that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect the entire world. It will be the worst time in the history of the world. There will be no ark to get on and no small city to flee to. The entire world will be affected by these plagues of wrath and which is their purpose.
Like I keep saying, the church is never mentioned again after the end of chapter 3 and during the narrative of God's wrath. If you think that the church is on the earth during the time of God's wrath and is protected, what do you make of the following:
"Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation."
If the saints in the scripture above was referring to the church, how then is the church protected, since the scripture states that the beast is given authority to make war against them and to conquer them, not to mention many of them being beheaded? That doesn't sound like protection to me. However, there's no need to search for an answer, because the saints that are mentioned above, is referring to the great tribulation saints who are revealed in Rev.7:9-17. These are those who will have become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath.
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Let the Scripture speak for itself....
(Rev 20)
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Utterly, breathtakingly, resoundingly crystal-clear.
(Rev 20)
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Utterly, breathtakingly, resoundingly crystal-clear.
Jesus did not expand on teachings which would be given to the apostles after His resurrection. The Risen Christ spent forty days with His apostles, teaching them of "the things pertaining to the Kingdom of God". In addition to that, He appeared to Paul several times and taught him many things which were not revealed to the other apostles, particularly the Mystery of the Church, the Resurrection, and the Rapture, as well as the Second Coming.
Now please note:
And he said unto them [AFTER HIS RESURRECTION], These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures... (Luke 24:44,45)
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: (Acts 1:3)
GALATIANS 1: PAUL TAUGHT DIRECTLY BY CHRIST IN ARABIA (AND ALSO AT OTHER TIMES)
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Now please note:
And he said unto them [AFTER HIS RESURRECTION], These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures... (Luke 24:44,45)
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: (Acts 1:3)
GALATIANS 1: PAUL TAUGHT DIRECTLY BY CHRIST IN ARABIA (AND ALSO AT OTHER TIMES)
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
(Mat 27:52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(Mat 27:53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Read those verses carefully. It says specifically that many bodies of the saints arose AND came out of the graves AND went into the holy city. Joseph was buried in Egypt, did he walk from Egypt and go into Jerusalem? Did Noah walk to Jerusalem? I don't think they did. I think that every person, both good and bad were raised from the dead on that day. The only exception to "those that slept in the dust of the earth" being raised would be the Giants, Nephillim.
You already know I don't agree with the rest lol.
(Mat 27:53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Read those verses carefully. It says specifically that many bodies of the saints arose AND came out of the graves AND went into the holy city. Joseph was buried in Egypt, did he walk from Egypt and go into Jerusalem? Did Noah walk to Jerusalem? I don't think they did. I think that every person, both good and bad were raised from the dead on that day. The only exception to "those that slept in the dust of the earth" being raised would be the Giants, Nephillim.
Secondly, I do believe David's "BODY" is still in the grave. [that's what "resurrection" speaks to, which means "to stand again on the earth']
Thirdly, Paul has said "the dead IN Christ shall [FUTURE TENSE] rise *first*"... before we [which are alive and remain unto] will be "snatched away TOGETHER [with G4862 them]" TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR (this is not saying "to MEET THEM where they will be in the air," but "snatched away/up TOGETHER WITH THEM *to* the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"... meaning "caught up TOGETHER..." AS ONE... AS ONE BODY [which is what WE ARE]... which is in a COMPLETELY DISTINCT way from the "gather ye ONE BY ONE" that happens in Matt24:29-31/Isa27:12-13 at the "GREAT trumpet" AFTER the tribulation and [for them] "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM"--and by angels "He SHALL SEND" to do so... In every way DISTINCT from that)
Lastly, Jesus spoke of a FUTURE "AOD [SINGULAR]" which comes AFTER "the beginning of BPs" and those come AFTER the events of 70ad; and He was referring back to Dan12:11 also in the SINGULAR [two verses above Daniel's 12:13 verse about him], so Daniel was told he would "stand in thy lot AT THE END OF THE DAYS"... v.11 (I just mentioned) pertains also to the "day-amounts" in THAT CHPT/CONTEXT... So when you trace this out (if you will), you can see that it is YET FUTURE, and that to "stand IN THY LOT" refers to an EARTHLY location (not UP IN Heaven) for the OT saints... the promised AND PROPHESIED *earthly* Millennial Kingdom. We are called to be "correctly apportioning the word of truth" and distinguishing the things that differ... Set YOUR affection ON THINGS ABOVE... not on Israel's earthly things... is our instruction. But so many BLUR these distinctions into one big mish-mash of MUSH!
Thirdly, Paul has said "the dead IN Christ shall [FUTURE TENSE] rise *first*"... before we [which are alive and remain unto] will be "snatched away TOGETHER [with G4862 them]" TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR (this is not saying "to MEET THEM where they will be in the air," but "snatched away/up TOGETHER WITH THEM *to* the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"... meaning "caught up TOGETHER..." AS ONE... AS ONE BODY [which is what WE ARE]... which is in a COMPLETELY DISTINCT way from the "gather ye ONE BY ONE" that happens in Matt24:29-31/Isa27:12-13 at the "GREAT trumpet" AFTER the tribulation and [for them] "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM"--and by angels "He SHALL SEND" to do so... In every way DISTINCT from that)
Lastly, Jesus spoke of a FUTURE "AOD [SINGULAR]" which comes AFTER "the beginning of BPs" and those come AFTER the events of 70ad; and He was referring back to Dan12:11 also in the SINGULAR [two verses above Daniel's 12:13 verse about him], so Daniel was told he would "stand in thy lot AT THE END OF THE DAYS"... v.11 (I just mentioned) pertains also to the "day-amounts" in THAT CHPT/CONTEXT... So when you trace this out (if you will), you can see that it is YET FUTURE, and that to "stand IN THY LOT" refers to an EARTHLY location (not UP IN Heaven) for the OT saints... the promised AND PROPHESIED *earthly* Millennial Kingdom. We are called to be "correctly apportioning the word of truth" and distinguishing the things that differ... Set YOUR affection ON THINGS ABOVE... not on Israel's earthly things... is our instruction. But so many BLUR these distinctions into one big mish-mash of MUSH!
You just refuse to listen. Ahuwatukee has already quashed your erroneous doctrine
Perhaps repeating it over and over again would help but I doubt it:
"If the saints in the scripture above was referring to the church, how then is the church protected, since the scripture states that the beast is given authority to make war against them and to conquer them, not to mention many of them being beheaded? That doesn't sound like protection to me. However, there's no need to search for an answer, because the saints that are mentioned above, is referring to the great tribulation saints who are revealed in Rev.7:9-17. These are those who will have become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath."
Perhaps repeating it over and over again would help but I doubt it:
"If the saints in the scripture above was referring to the church, how then is the church protected, since the scripture states that the beast is given authority to make war against them and to conquer them, not to mention many of them being beheaded? That doesn't sound like protection to me. However, there's no need to search for an answer, because the saints that are mentioned above, is referring to the great tribulation saints who are revealed in Rev.7:9-17. These are those who will have become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath."
Paul cannot be more clear that the day does not come upon us, the Church, like a thief in the night, because we are prepared.
You fail to comprehend that it does come as a thief in the night upon those who do not believe in the the rapture. Why? Because those who do not believe in the rapture are not earnestly waiting for the soon return of our Lord Jesus Christ as He has commanded and warned time and time and time again.
You fail to comprehend that it does come as a thief in the night upon those who do not believe in the the rapture. Why? Because those who do not believe in the rapture are not earnestly waiting for the soon return of our Lord Jesus Christ as He has commanded and warned time and time and time again.
What you said above, is one of the major reasons why you and others don't have any understanding. All you do is read a book by a false teaching and then adopt his teachings and continue to spread these false teachings.
The gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, are two separate events with different purposes.
Regarding the gathering of the church, the Lord will descend into the atmosphere and with a voice that sounds like a trumpet will say "Come up here!" Where the dead in Christ will rise first. Then those in Christ who are still alive will be changed and caught up with those who just resurrected. At that point the entire church will be gathered in the air to meet the Lord, where He will then take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us.
In opposition, at the second coming, the Lord will descend from heaven to the earth with the church following him, where He will have the beast and the false prophet captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20). After that, a mighty angel having the key to the Abyss, will seize Satan and throw him into the Abyss where he will be imprisoned for a thousand years, which is during the thousand year reign of Christ.
The final judgment, also known as the great white throne judgment, takes place at the end of the thousand years, which will consist of all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. They will be resurrected, with their spirits being let out of Hades to be united with their resurrected bodies and will stand before God at the great white throne to be judged for every idle word they ever spoke.
Sorry, but scripture is very clear that there will be a thousand year period following the tribulation period. The only way that you can claim that there isn't, is by ignoring, allegorizing or symbolizing the thousand years which is mentioned six times in succession.
Most assuredly, Jesus will return with both His angels and His church. For the scriptures proclaim both groups will return with Him.
The Day of the Lord, also known as "the hour of trial" is neither a day nor an hour in length, but instead represents the time period in which God will pour out His wrath and which is seven years in length. The earth isn't destroyed until after the millennial kingdom is over. Below is John speaking after the millennial kingdom and at the start of the great white throne judgment:
At the start of the great white throne judgment:
"Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them.
After the great white throne judgment:
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
The gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, are two separate events with different purposes.
Regarding the gathering of the church, the Lord will descend into the atmosphere and with a voice that sounds like a trumpet will say "Come up here!" Where the dead in Christ will rise first. Then those in Christ who are still alive will be changed and caught up with those who just resurrected. At that point the entire church will be gathered in the air to meet the Lord, where He will then take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us.
In opposition, at the second coming, the Lord will descend from heaven to the earth with the church following him, where He will have the beast and the false prophet captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20). After that, a mighty angel having the key to the Abyss, will seize Satan and throw him into the Abyss where he will be imprisoned for a thousand years, which is during the thousand year reign of Christ.
The final judgment, also known as the great white throne judgment, takes place at the end of the thousand years, which will consist of all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. They will be resurrected, with their spirits being let out of Hades to be united with their resurrected bodies and will stand before God at the great white throne to be judged for every idle word they ever spoke.
Sorry, but scripture is very clear that there will be a thousand year period following the tribulation period. The only way that you can claim that there isn't, is by ignoring, allegorizing or symbolizing the thousand years which is mentioned six times in succession.
Most assuredly, Jesus will return with both His angels and His church. For the scriptures proclaim both groups will return with Him.
The Day of the Lord, also known as "the hour of trial" is neither a day nor an hour in length, but instead represents the time period in which God will pour out His wrath and which is seven years in length. The earth isn't destroyed until after the millennial kingdom is over. Below is John speaking after the millennial kingdom and at the start of the great white throne judgment:
At the start of the great white throne judgment:
"Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them.
After the great white throne judgment:
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
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Tragically you fall into the same camp as KJV1611.
Y'all better pay attention buddy. You've got one shot at this. What had better concern you is that those who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit receive the truth and they understand it immediately.
You on the other hand rejected immediately. A cause for deep concern.
Y'all better pay attention buddy. You've got one shot at this. What had better concern you is that those who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit receive the truth and they understand it immediately.
You on the other hand rejected immediately. A cause for deep concern.