What "solid proofs"? Links? Books? Quotations? Nope, just assertions.
The absurdity and heresy of Preterism
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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The main problem relating to this is in selective interpretation and unintentianal/deliberate amnesia when it comes to other related
Gospel passages that wont fit into whatever the reader wants them to say. Before the discussion in Matthew Chapter 24 Jesus attacked the Religious leadership. The Disciples then drew his attention to the impressive Temple Structure and told them that not one stone
would be left on another that wont be thrown down. His Disciples asked him when will these things be, the sign of his coming, and
the end of the age. He answered by combining events that will happen both in their generation and in the distant future. He knew
what would happen both in 70AD and before his second coming. Many of the events in their generation and the last days would be
very similar and others wouldnt. What is known as full preterism tries to fit everything into one time frame. There are partial preterists that recognise that there will be a second coming followed by a final judgement. Unfortunately literalists fail to realise that Jewish understanding of scripture also recognises that there are also passages that use symbol, metaphor and poetry as well as literalism
both then and now.
Gospel passages that wont fit into whatever the reader wants them to say. Before the discussion in Matthew Chapter 24 Jesus attacked the Religious leadership. The Disciples then drew his attention to the impressive Temple Structure and told them that not one stone
would be left on another that wont be thrown down. His Disciples asked him when will these things be, the sign of his coming, and
the end of the age. He answered by combining events that will happen both in their generation and in the distant future. He knew
what would happen both in 70AD and before his second coming. Many of the events in their generation and the last days would be
very similar and others wouldnt. What is known as full preterism tries to fit everything into one time frame. There are partial preterists that recognise that there will be a second coming followed by a final judgement. Unfortunately literalists fail to realise that Jewish understanding of scripture also recognises that there are also passages that use symbol, metaphor and poetry as well as literalism
both then and now.
Ironically history proves the gt is future.
The mark
The flying scorpions
Hailstones of fire
The planet destroyed
And on and on.
Historicist view is debunked quite easily.
We know Revelations "was not" written in 68 AD to begin with.
Papyrus 98 (in the Gregory-Aland numbering), designated by 98, is an early copy of the New Testament in Greek. It is a papyrus manuscript of the Book of Revelation. The manuscript palaeographically had been assigned to years "100–125AD(?)".
We know Domitian placed John into exile on Patmos.
- John’s opposition to emperor worship, in addition to his continued preaching of the Gospel, ultimately reached the ear of Domitian and prompted him to take action. In 94 AD, the 14 th year of the reign of Emperor Domitian, the elderly John the Apostle was exiled to the island of Patmos.
drivethruhistoryadventures.com/john-exiled-to-patmos/
Billions weren’t likely living on the earth in Noahs day, Second, the only similarities between them according to Jesus is that the flood had no warning signs and the second coming, not yet happened, will also not have any.
Not if you read the account. Women were so hungry that they were eating their children. No one in a flood does that.
What solid proof? I’ve heard the “evidence”but let’s see what you know. The evidence in the text is that he was in his 60s and traveled afterwards as the text says he would. Not possible at 90.
The author of that text said Jesus died in his 50s. Hummmmm
No, we read them.
No we read the whole of scripture and history. Shall I look up the historical documents that say Nero sent John to Patmos?
One needs to understand the nature of Old and New Testament prophesy. There are literal scorpions.
What is heresy?
Is it Just concerning salvation?
I always looked at it as a departure from the bible......and not just encompassing salvation dynamics
Is it Just concerning salvation?
I always looked at it as a departure from the bible......and not just encompassing salvation dynamics
If you are claiming Christ was speaking of 2 events in Matthew 24 I absolutely agree.
He did indeed speak of the 70 AD Destruction.
But He spent more time on the Great Tribulation and specifies the Elect will go through it, the days will be shortened for the Elect's Sake (not the beheaded they are dead so it means SAVED before Tribulation begins), then He says AFTER TRIBULATION end to watch for signs (moon to blood, stars falling) and then from like lightning coming East to West so will be Christ Returning.
You would need some evidence that the flying creatures with stings of scorpions ever existed in ad 70.
Same with mark of the beast and millions beheaded for refusing the mark ...beheaded
And then we have the 144k in heaven during the gt as well as the remnant Jews raptured to heaven.
Both items in rev 14...during the gt
Both items in rev 14...during the gt
John Exiled to Patmos - Amazing Bible Timeline with World History
amazingbibletimeline.com/blog/john-exiled-to-patmos
Oct 12, 2018 · John, the Disciple of Jesus, was banished to Patmos during the latter years of his life. When Rome had exiled John to Patmos, he was the last remaining member of the Twelve Disciples of Jesus Christ. John was born 6 A.D. His life appears on the Bible Timeline Chart between then and 100 AD.
- Population of Flood estimations 1 source 195 million people/ 2nd source more people than today's 7+ billion:
- Using them the population would be about 195 million people at the time of the flood. A more resonable, yet low estimate would have a mother 65 years old having six children six years apart, three percent are infertile, and the average age of death is 900.
www.amunrud.com/noah/population.html
OR
What Was the Population of Earth Before the Flood ...
www.petergoeman.com/population-earth-flood
Even if we use a much smaller growth rate than the previous example for the pre-flood world (e.g., 1.5% per year) that would still get us to 122 billion people at the time of the flood. I have a hard time believing that there were that many people on the planet, but I also realize that the world was made to be a home for many people. Thus, it is quite possible there were many more people on the planet than even our “large” population today.
Concluding Thoughts
- Given the longer lifespans of pre-flood life (e.g., Adam 930 yrs, Jared 962 yrs, etc.), as well as the optimal living conditions, we should expect a faster population growth rate than we currently have today.
- Taking into account that man was inherently bent on evil (as he is today) it is beyond doubt that there was much violence, war, and murder which impacted or slowed population growth. Thus, the actual number may be well below 122 billion.
- However, given the above information, it is reasonable that the pre-flood world had a population [[that may have exceeded the current day. Perhaps even greatly so]].
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Internal evidence in the book of Revelation that it was written about 95 AD would be the letter to the 7 churches. Jesus describes quite a falling from their original state. If they were started in the 50s (see Acts, and other of Paul's epistles) then it is logical that they had allowed such declination in 40 years. It is hardly likely that they fell into such disarray in merely 10 years (if Rev were written in the 60s)
That is strong evidence.
That is strong evidence.
Just fyi, it is a fact that John was exiled to Patmos during the reign of Domitian, who reigned from 81 - 96 AD.
One needs to understand the nature of Old and New Testament prophesy. There are literal scorpions but not literal scorpions spoken of in Revelation.
This makes no sense. The letters to the churches says the time of fulfillment was near. In 95 AD it was over. John was told he’d appear before kings. Impossible in 95ad.
Can you please quote to me where all 7 churches are told they are falling away and evidence (where does falling away mean 40 years and never 10) the timing of that?
No it is a fact he was exiled in 60
something AD, the same period Nero had Christians killed to include Paul and Peter. That’s a fact. (If you can say your position is a fact so can I.)
Even if the dating is reliable, all it means is that Revelation cannot have been written after 100-125. It cannot prove when it was written prior to those dates.
No, we don't "know" that. Your source has no citations to actual historical sources. The writer assumes John's involvement but does not prove it with any evidence.