THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

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Sudakar said:
I don't trust in my ceasing to sin to prove my saving faith. But you trust in in lowering the standard of lordship to suit your sinfulness and lust in order to prove falsely that you have saving faith. That's absurd and hypocrisy.
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Are you serious? Who are you to be talking anyone Down about their sins? You show such arrogance in your posts and you lack understanding in scripture yet have the nerve to to talk down others about their sins?

Take the plank out of your own eye first
 
Deuteronomy said:
Hello Guojing, St. James speaks of two different ~kinds~ of faith in the second chapter of his Epistle, 1. a lively/saving faith that RESULTS in all of the things that ACCOMPANY salvation and 2. a dead faith that ~results~ in nothing.

Here are just some of the many things that result from our being saved and made "His workmanship", good works, obedience, and our desire and choice to live a holy (rather than sinful) lifestyle. The things that accompany salvation do not save us (nor do they maintain our salvation), rather, they are fruit of our salvation, as well a justification of who/what we say we have become .. James 2:24, as the things that accompany our salvation demonstrate (to ourselves and to others .. 2 Corinthians 13:5) that we are who we say we are/now claim to be, a believer.

So, what we do/say (and even how we think) tells us (and others) who we really are! Therefore, if someone who claims to be a Christian never changes, or quickly returns to living the kind of sinful lifestyle that they were living prior to making that claim, then chances are more than just good that they are 'not' who they say they are (and perhaps even believe themselves to be .. cf Matthew 7:22-23), and their ~claim~ of being "in Christ" should be regarded as nothing more than that.

As St. James says (no doubt tongue in cheek),

James 2​
18 Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.​

~Deut
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Do you prove your faith by doing works according to the standard mentioned in mathew 5:48 or according to a lower standard to suit your sinfulness and lust?
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
Saved is not a one time thing. We have been saved from the penalty of sin at the very moment He has forgiven us. We are being saved from the power of sin via sanctification of the Holy Spirit. And we will be finally saved from the presence of sin at glorification.
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If you are finally saved from the presence of sin only at glorification, you are lamely excusing yourself from having to fulfil mathew 5:48 to prove you have saving faith!
 
Deuteronomy said:
Hello again Guojing, I believe that a proper understanding of what is written in the Bible often requires that we take a deeper look, one that goes beyond our 'first blush' impressions of a verse or passage, to have any hope of arriving at the Lord's intended meaning. This should not be surprising considering that great number of human authors that He chose to use, their varied situations in life and POV's, that they wrote what they did more than two millennia ago, as well a number of other factors.

That said, I believe exactly what you do, that faith w/o works will not save anyone, but that does 'not' mean that our works have anything to do with our salvation (other than demonstrating to us that it is real/that we are really and truly saved), as Jesus, Paul, Peter and others make plain to us in many other passages.

Surely you'd agree that a proper exegesis of a passage must not directly contradict what is taught (in other places) in the Bible :unsure:

Perhaps this will be helpful (it's a quote from Calvin, and just FYI, Luther taught the exact same principle using slightly different words),

"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone"​

The fact of the matter is, if the word δικαιόω (translated as "justified" in our Bibles) carries the same meaning in St. James' Epistle as it does in many/most places in the Pauline Epistles, then we have a big problem, because that would mean that the Bible contradicts itself. The good news is, 1. words have more than one meaning, and 2. I believe St. James makes his meaning clear (by what he wrote in Chapter two prior to v24 .. cf v18).

~Deut
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We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone according to the standard stated in mathew 5:48 or according to some pet standard of yours?
 
Blain said:
Pardon my interruption of your conversation with sack cloth but both of you are right
it is true faith without works is dead but works without faith is also dead they are both intertwined and cannot be with out the other no matter which one is in front of the other
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How much of works? Works according to the standard states in mathew 5:48 or some failures standard followed by lordship salvationists?
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
I’ve told you over and over works are not necessary for salvation. K?
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If works are necessary to prove saving faith, indirectly salvation is also linked to works. So it's meaningless for you to say works are not necessary for salvation. Don't pretend you believe in grace.
 
Blain said:
Magenta is one of the most pure souls I have ever met don’t put words her mouth
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IS DEMANDING CHRISTIANS TO PROVE THEY HAVE SAVING FAITH WITHOUT STATING A STANDARD TO CHECK FOR COMPLIANCE, MEANINGFUL?
If you say works accompany salvation, its fine. But if you go beyond and say that works prove saving faith, then you have to state the standard of works required to prove one has saving faith or else the standard of proof for having a saving faith becomes subjective and arbitrary to each individual and eventually making no sense except blabbery.
Lordship Salvationists are scared of stating the standard for fear of being exposed they have not met the standard themselves and looking like hypocrites!
 
Ruby123 said:
@Sudakar, would your understanding come from the teachings of Joseph Prince? I actually quite like him.
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IS DEMANDING CHRISTIANS TO PROVE THEY HAVE SAVING FAITH WITHOUT STATING A STANDARD TO CHECK FOR COMPLIANCE, MEANINGFUL?
If you say works accompany salvation, its fine. But if you go beyond and say that works prove saving faith, then you have to state the standard of works required to prove one has saving faith or else the standard of proof for having a saving faith becomes subjective and arbitrary to each individual and eventually making no sense except blabbery.
Lordship Salvationists are scared of stating the standard for fear of being exposed they have not met the standard themselves and looking like hypocrites!
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
He’s mixed up. He has James and Paul both preaching different gospels. He’s some sort of messed up dispensationalist.
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IS DEMANDING CHRISTIANS TO PROVE THEY HAVE SAVING FAITH WITHOUT STATING A STANDARD TO CHECK FOR COMPLIANCE, MEANINGFUL?
If you say works accompany salvation, its fine. But if you go beyond and say that works prove saving faith, then you have to state the standard of works required to prove one has saving faith or else the standard of proof for having a saving faith becomes subjective and arbitrary to each individual and eventually making no sense except blabbery.
Lordship Salvationists are scared of stating the standard for fear of being exposed they have not met the standard themselves and looking like hypocrites!
 
Guojing said:
and yet you believe faith without works is dead? You are contradicting yourself.
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IS DEMANDING CHRISTIANS TO PROVE THEY HAVE SAVING FAITH WITHOUT STATING A STANDARD TO CHECK FOR COMPLIANCE, MEANINGFUL?
If you say works accompany salvation, its fine. But if you go beyond and say that works prove saving faith, then you have to state the standard of works required to prove one has saving faith or else the standard of proof for having a saving faith becomes subjective and arbitrary to each individual and eventually making no sense except blabbery.
Lordship Salvationists are scared of stating the standard for fear of being exposed they have not met the standard themselves and looking like hypocrites!
 
Sudakar said:
IS DEMANDING CHRISTIANS TO PROVE THEY HAVE SAVING FAITH WITHOUT STATING A STANDARD TO CHECK FOR COMPLIANCE, MEANINGFUL?
If you say works accompany salvation, its fine. But if you go beyond and say that works prove saving faith, then you have to state the standard of works required to prove one has saving faith or else the standard of proof for having a saving faith becomes subjective and arbitrary to each individual and eventually making no sense except blabbery.
Lordship Salvationists are scared of stating the standard for fear of being exposed they have not met the standard themselves and looking like hypocrites!
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I dont know what you are talking about. It was a simple question, yes or no.
You seem to be so stuck on proving your point that nobody is listening. Perhaps you should answer questions and then people may listen even if they dont agree. Good luck in your approach, I see its really working !!
 
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