THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Guojing]

Ok so we threw out the OT because that was for the Jews, now we throw out the NT cause that was to the Jews. What was for the Gentiles, the maps?! smh

The verse is saying whatever causes you to sin, get rid of it. It's not saying get a meat cleaver and hack yourself to death, you know that right?! Otherwise we'd be like the old Catholics and flagellate ourselves when we sin.

Ephesians 2:11-12
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Before the revelation of Christ as a mystery given to Paul, we Gentiles were never in the salvation plan.

 

[John146]

Ok so we threw out the OT because that was for the Jews, now we throw out the NT cause that was to the Jews. What was for the Gentiles, the maps?! smh

The verse is saying whatever causes you to sin, get rid of it. It's not saying get a meat cleaver and hack yourself to death, you know that right?! Otherwise we'd be like the old Catholics and flagellate ourselves when we sin.

Typical commentary view, but what in the passage tells us not to take this as literal? Is it better to get into the kingdom (Jew speaking) with one eye than to be cast into hell with two?

 

[kaylagrl]

Typical commentary view, but what in the passage tells us not to take this as literal? Is it better to get into the kingdom (Jew speaking) with one eye than to be cast into hell with two?

Wow, thanks, commentary, didn't know I was that good. So you're saying the verse literally means chop off your hand and pluck out your eye. Are we having a healing service after for the bleed out or what? Come on now, be serious.

 

[Guojing]

Wow, thanks, commentary, didn't know I was that good. So you're saying the verse literally means chop off your hand and pluck out your eye. Are we having a healing service after for the bleed out or what? Come on now, be serious.

As was stated in that first post you replied to, there is a reason why signs and wonders were a feature of the gospel of the kingdom.

Jesus was showing to Israel that he could heal all of them. So to me, the choice is clear to make if I were a Jew then.

But now, under the gospel of grace, signs and wonders are no longer a feature.

 

[John146]

Wow, thanks, commentary, didn't know I was that good. So you're saying the verse literally means chop off your hand and pluck out your eye. Are we having a healing service after for the bleed out or what? Come on now, be serious.

You have to realize this is not doctrine for the body of Christ after the resurrection. This is doctrine for the Jews concerning their kingdom. The rules are differen.

 

[miknik5]

If love for Lord proves saving faith, do evil works prove the lack of saving faith?

Paul answered this issue in Romans 7

 

[miknik5]

Externally non christians appear more saved than christians when seen through works. But the real difference is in the confessions of faith in Christ's atonement which non christians dont have.

That was a good post I am glad to have seen this post

 

[Micaiah-imla]

You have to realize this is not doctrine for the body of Christ after the resurrection.

So you do not consent to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ?

If any man teach otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words...Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth...from such withdraw yourself (1 Timothy 6:3-5).

We are to be rooted and built up in Christ (Colossians 2:7).

Whoever led you away into a course of ignoring Christ's words knew nothing and was destitute of the truth.

Why would you let such a person lead you to this path of error?

Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causes to err from the words of knowledge (Proverbs 19:27).

 

[EleventhHour]

Externally non christians appear more saved than christians when seen through works. But the real difference is in the confessions of faith in Christ's atonement which non christians dont have.

Amen

 

[miknik5]

Lordship Salvationists are sinful according to the Lord's command in mathew 5:48 & yet accuse christians who commit sin as "unsaved"!!!

How can you speak for people? How do you KNOW what is in their heart that you accuse them that they say christians who commit sin are unsaved? You are simply assuming they are doing the same thing that you are doing...

Because, you, are accusing them of doing good works because they are not saved....

 

[miknik5]

If you had turned from your sins you would have obeyed the Lord's command in mathew 5:48!!
You call Him Lord Lord in order to be saved but you don't do what He said in mathew 5:48?

James had more information on being Perfect sir...and you have failed in that...therefore ,you are not doing what is said in Matthew 5:48. You have called people stupid and have called me worse...I pointed this out to you in your other thread.

Therefore, how can you point to Matthew 5:48 when you yourself do not keep this...
Don´t you know what Romans 2 says about those who judge others yet do the same thing themselves?

 

[miknik5]

You speak and judge and accuse as if you know the heart and mind (spirit) of another man...Just like you did in your Cessation and Healing thread when you accused Christians of going to doctors and trusting in the Benny HInns of the world...and not trusting CHRISTŚ atonement for healing.

Thank GOD it is GOD alone who sees where men can not see....

 

[Jimbone]

Externally non christians appear more saved than christians when seen through works. But the real difference is in the confessions of faith in Christ's atonement which non christians dont have.

I have to disagree a bit. Honestly it seems you are still talking about this 100% in the flesh. You're saying that the "difference" between the saved and unsaved is our "confessions of faith in Christ's atonement"? Really? Please don't take me wrong, I agree with you honestly, the believer does have "confessions of faith in Christ's atonement". but can the non believer not "confess" the same thing with his mouth? Why do we have this confession? What makes the Christian different from the lost when we say it? His power and Spirit. We are now spiritually resurrected and made whole as we were created to be. That is the difference, and those without His Spirit are blind to the things of the Spirit, and the things of the Spirit sound like foolishness to those who are perishing. I can't exactly disagree with you here, because you're technically 100% right, but the way you're coming at things, the way you're looking at the world around you causes me to question, at the very least your understanding of the Spirit and being born again, but also to hear you out, because God works in each one of us personally for a purpose, so I'd truly be eager to hear what you have to say, your perspective, and some of your testimony if you feel like sharing. I like hearing how He draws us in. I am skeptical only because I know how it works in my head, but I have to be careful not to dismiss your point of view as well because you may be who God sent to teach me something new. Just know I appreciate these conversations even if I sound a bit harsh.

 

[John146]

So you do not consent to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ?

If any man teach otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words...Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth...from such withdraw yourself (1 Timothy 6:3-5).

We are to be rooted and built up in Christ (Colossians 2:7).

Whoever led you away into a course of ignoring Christ's words knew nothing and was destitute of the truth.

Why would you let such a person lead you to this path of error?

Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causes to err from the words of knowledge (Proverbs 19:27).

Is not all Scripture from the Lord? The words the Lord spoke in the body of flesh are not to be elevated above that which Paul spoke, but we must rightly divide the word especially by audience. We must ask, To whom is this written to, to whom does this doctrine apply?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

We must ask, To whom is this written to, to whom does this doctrine apply?

All scripture is from God to mankind.

• All things Jesus spoke were from God (John 3:34).
• The apostle Paul wrote the commandments of the Lord (1 Corinthians 14:37; 1 Thessalonians 4:2).
• For whatsoever things were written in the past were written for our learning (Romans 15:4).
• We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone (Ephesians 2:20).
• All scripture is given by inspiration of God...that the man of God may be perfect (2 Timothy 3:16).

I am positive these scriptures will not faze you since you have likely had your conscience seared with the iron of Dispensational Theology.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

You are the one who trusts in your works to justify yourself by justifying your saving faith. I trust in grace not my works to show evidence.

Now I understand your back is to the wall agreeing that your works cannot prove your saving faith.

Nope.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So now you agree works cannot prove one has saving faith.

Nope.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Lordship Salvationists are sinful according to the Lord's command in mathew 5:48 & yet accuse christians who commit sin as "unsaved"!!!

Nope.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

If you had turned from your sins you would have obeyed the Lord's command in mathew 5:48!!
You call Him Lord Lord in order to be saved but you don't do what He said in mathew 5:48?

Nope.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

In order to be saved, you have changed your mind by lowering the bar of what lordship requires in mathew 5:48 to suit your degree of sinfulness. Your concept of lordship is "diluted" & subjective and not according to mathew 5:48!!

Nope.