Not By Works

[Micaiah-imla]

So are you a second Moses now?

Of course not. Just making a point.

The true church does not have a sign out front with an identifying sectarian name.

 

[EleventhHour]

Of course not. Just making a point.

The true church does not have a sign out front with sectarian signage.

You have a group, maybe you meet in a house or something, but I know you have been fed this stuff ... You Tube is filled others peddling the same as what you preach.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

but I know you have been fed this stuff ...

Incorrect.

I read the Bible.

Then I compare the happenings around me according to the Bible.

I have been fed nothing but the pure word of God through consistent and constant independent reading.

I have made it my mission, by the grace of God, to reject all of man's words that do not align with scripture; ALL OF THEM!

When I first read the Bible in 2007, and experienced my conversion in 2008, I vowed to myself that I would never be led away from the Bible by any man or any religious system.

Man shall not live on bread alone, but by every word of God.

I am not the only one. But I can see that the Bible is correct in stating that the number of the true faithful ones is few.

Many will seek to enter in, and shall not be able (Luke 13:24).

 

[VCO]

Incorrect.

I read the Bible.

Then I compare the happenings around me according to the Bible.

I have been fed nothing but the pure word of God through consistent and constant independent reading.

I have made it my mission, by the grace of God, to reject all of man's words that do not align with scripture; ALL OF THEM!

When I first read the Bible in 2007, and experienced my conversion in 2008, I vowed to myself that I would never be led away from the Bible by any man or any religious system.

Man shall not live on bread alone, but by every word of God.

I am not the only one. But I can see that the Bible is correct in stating that the number of the true faithful ones is few.

Many will seek to enter in, and shall not be able (Luke 13:24).

THERE IS YOUR MISTAKE. DID NOT GOD TELL YOU TO LISTEN TO THIS MEN, BUT YOU MADE UP YOUR OWN MIND.

Ephesians 4:11-13 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

THERE IS YOUR MISTAKE. DID NOT GOD TELL YOU TO LISTEN TO THIS MEN, BUT YOU MADE UP YOUR OWN MIND.

Ephesians 4:11-13 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.

I have not made up my own mind.

I have these apostles, prophets, pastors and teachers, that have enabled me to be renewed in the spirit of my mind according to the word of God.

Their names are:

Paul
Peter
John
Jude
Moses
Jeremiah
Ezekiel...etc.

You get the point.

I have the entire Bible.

Thank God we have the New Testament preserved for men in these last days.

 

[VCO]

I believe Jesus is the Christ.....and the rest is a joke coming from you....Eternal security is biblical pal.....your dime store, self maintained, losable salvation on the other hand....no where to be found in scripture!

Kept by the power of God <---still waiting on you to tap dance around that post above deceiver.....!

Micaiah-imla's is getting deeper, and deeper into FALSE BELIEF.

 

[VCO]

Again, you are unwisely venturing, presumptuously I might add, into uttering lies.

I follow the word of God, period.

There is not an assembly out there that does this. They all in one respect or another make void different portions of scripture in some way or another.

Proverbs 12:15 (NASB77)
15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel.

Proverbs 15:5 (NCV)
5 Fools reject their parents’ correction, but anyone who accepts correction is wise.

Galatians 6:6-7 (NIV)
6 Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Proverbs 12:15 (NASB77)
15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel.

This is why I read and obey the word of God.

He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake (Psalm 23:3).

 

[cv5]

Incorrect.

I read the Bible.

Then I compare the happenings around me according to the Bible.

I have been fed nothing but the pure word of God through consistent and constant independent reading.

I have made it my mission, by the grace of God, to reject all of man's words that do not align with scripture; ALL OF THEM!

When I first read the Bible in 2007, and experienced my conversion in 2008, I vowed to myself that I would never be led away from the Bible by any man or any religious system.

Man shall not live on bread alone, but by every word of God.

I am not the only one. But I can see that the Bible is correct in stating that the number of the true faithful ones is few.

Many will seek to enter in, and shall not be able (Luke 13:24).

Samuel oversaw the school of the prophets at Naioth in Ramah.
The priests in ancient Israel undertook a period of formalized training before they were qualified for their tasks. Jesus trained and taught his disciples for several years.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Even if I am not posting here I am following the thread… sometimes. The thing is we can’t be plucked out of God’s hand but God give us choices to make. Just like with Israel they became His bride, and He said; “nothing can pluck you out of my hand; and I will never leave you or forsake you.”

So if we are obedient He will never forsake us, but He will divorce us if we so choose, that is Biblical.

No amount of arguing can convince me otherwise than:

• God has always been a God of grace.
• No amount of works can get me saved.
• If I get to the feet of the cross my works will change.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Jesus trained and taught his disciples for several years.

Yet the Pharisees asked Jesus "who gave you this authority?"

And Jeremiah was being accused of being crazy and making himself a prophet by the false prophet Shemaiah (Jeremiah 29:24-26).

And Paul counted being a Pharisee (to which he got training in) one of the things that he counted as "dung" (Philippians 3:5-7).

Reading the Bible and learning from it is always better than being taught by someone who has turned aside into error.

I came to read the Bible with no prior Church indoctrination (never attended a church, never had a Bible in my home growing up). I learned what I know purely from scripture. And over the years I have met so many professing believers who have either been raised in church, or learned through a church, and they had much error ingrained in their minds. It's hard to talk to this type of person.

 

[EleventhHour]

Micaiah-imla's is getting deeper, and deeper into FALSE BELIEF.

I see it differently... I feel like those that teach salvation must be maintained/works are already at the bottom of false belief.

 

[oyster67]

I have not made up my own mind.

I have these apostles, prophets, pastors and teachers, that have enabled me to be renewed in the spirit of my mind according to the word of God.

Their names are:

Paul
Peter
John
Jude
Moses
Jeremiah
Ezekiel...etc.

You get the point.

I have the entire Bible.

Thank God we have the New Testament preserved for men in these last days.

Godspeed, my much beloved brother! Stay the course. Be not discouraged.

Galatians 6
6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

A tree is known by it's fruit.

 

[oyster67]

I see it differently... I feel like those that teach salvation must be maintained/works are already at the bottom of false belief.

I have never taught that salvation must be maintained by work. I have posted what the Bible says about not casting it away willfully.

 

[mailmandan]

Since you seem to think Paul preached salvation "by works and faith" can you find for me where Paul tells us how many works or how strong our life of obedience needs to be so we can be assured of salvation?

Good question. So how many works must we accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save us? Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) Assurance of salvation is found in Christ and not in self. (1 John 5:11-13)

When I read Paul, I read a man who was utterly convinced of his own salvation (saved status) not someone waiting to see if he had done enough works to be allowed into Heaven.

How many works is enough? Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. We could never do enough works to merit Heaven.

 

[oyster67]

Good question. So how many works must we accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save us? Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) Assurance of salvation is found in Christ and not in self. (1 John 5:11-13)

How many works is enough? Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. We could never do enough works to merit Heaven.

We don't have to do anything. We are to let the Spirit work in us. Lack of works is an indicator that something is wrong. We are saved unto fruit bearing. God gets the glory, because He does the works through us.

 

[cv5]

Yet the Pharisees asked Jesus "who gave you this authority?"

And Jeremiah was being accused of being crazy and making himself a prophet by the false prophet Shemaiah (Jeremiah 29:24-26).

And Paul counted being a Pharisee (to which he got training in) one of the things that he counted as "dung" (Philippians 3:5-7).

Reading the Bible and learning from it is always better than being taught by someone who has turned aside into error.

I came to read the Bible with no prior Church indoctrination (never attended a church, never had a Bible in my home growing up). I learned what I know purely from scripture. And over the years I have met so many professing believers who have either been raised in church, or learned through a church, and they had much error ingrained in their minds. It's hard to talk to this type of person.

We both know that teaching ministries and doctrinal training was part of the early Church infrastructure. I will let you find the Scriptures for yourself. Don't try to shoehorn everyone into your own particular situation, you are not entitled to set any unique and new standard here.

I will be the first to admit that false teachers and prophets abound in the world today. But for the mature they are relatively easy to spot.

 

[dcontroversal]

Where did Jeremiah in the Old Testament attend?

Where was Elijah sent?

Was there a godly assembly Lot could attend in Sodom and Gomorrah?

How many people entered the ark OUT OF THE ENTIRE PLANET?

Come on mockers, answer! (Generally speaking, not directly addressing you cv5)

Another idiotic reply from one that is excusing his own sin, excusing counting the blood of Christ an ordinary base thing, excusing trampling Jesus uder your feet all the while peddling that you are righteous, following the word and NO CHURCHES ARE...

You are deceived man!

 

[cv5]

We don't have to do anything. We are to let the Spiri
So let me ask you this: Should someone truly repent and receive Lord Jesus Messiah, and subsequently bear fruit in good faith, then backslide into despair through say for example the attacks of Satan, the fruit bearing having also ceased, has God divorced this person leaving them condemned once again?

Even if I am not posting here I am following the thread… sometimes. The thing is we can’t be plucked out of God’s hand but God give us choices to make. Just like with Israel they became His bride, and He said; “nothing can pluck you out of my hand; and I will never leave you or forsake you.”

So if we are obedient He will never forsake us, but He will divorce us if we so choose, that is Biblical.

No amount of arguing can convince me otherwise than:

• God has always been a God of grace.
• No amount of works can get me saved.
• If I get to the feet of the cross my works will change.

So let me ask you this: Should someone truly repent and receive Lord Jesus Messiah, and subsequently bear fruit in good faith, then backslide into despair through say for example the attacks of Satan, the fruit bearing having also ceased, has God divorced this person leaving them condemned once again?

In this particular circumstance I suppose you could call it twice born and twice dead?

 

[dcontroversal]

Your "opponents" here are basically trying to fit what Paul revealed about the mystery of the grace dispensation, into everything else in the 4 gospels and the book of James.

For example, after they understood Paul, they go back to a verse like John 3:16 or John 6:29 and conclude, "See, Jesus ONLY said to believe in him will have eternal life, he did not say be water baptized, obey the Law, etc etc".

They ignore what Jesus said about keeping the Law elsewhere in the 4 gospels, and also reinterpret what James was trying to tell the Jews in his letter that faith without works is dead, from the perspective of Paul.

We ignore nothing Gong Show....Jesus was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which ratified the NEW COVENANT......this is what YOU ARE OBLIVIOUS to and reject on a daily basis!