You can't come to the father but by Jesus.
But if you say that Jesus is the father, then that means that you can't come to Jesus but by Jesus, which makes no sense.
Catholicism vs Protestantism
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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But if you say that Jesus is the father, then that means that you can't come to Jesus but by Jesus, which makes no sense.
One God, three persons.
Jesus and the father are one God, so the singular is used in CCC 841.
"One God, three persons" is a common formulation of the trinity. I believe it's what Catholics use.
The Father the son and the spirit are the three persons of the trinity.
The word God can mean Father, Son, or the Holy Spirit, or all three together.
And it can get to be even more of a mystery.
2 Kings 17: 32 So they went on worshipping the Lord, and made for themselves, from among all the people, priests for the high places, to make offerings for them in the houses of the high places.
Who are the Samaritans worshipping here? One person of the trinity? The entire Trinity?
It is Jesus -- the one who was raised from the dead -- who will be the Judge, even though the Father is the ultimate Judge. The Father has handed over all power and authority to the Son, which will eventually be handed back to the Father. At the same time both the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God, but there is a *hierarchy* within the Godhead (1 Cor 11:3). The Head of Christ is God (the Father).
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because He [the Father] hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man [Christ] whom he hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31)
1 CORINTHIANS 15
24 Then cometh the end, when He [Christ] shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when He [Christ] shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He [Christ] must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For He [the Father] hath put all things under His [the Son's] feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He [the Father] is excepted, which did put all things under Him [the Son].
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him [Christ], then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him [the Father] that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Ccc 841 say muslim adore the one merciful God and you say God is only one
Wich God was ccc 841 talking about?
No body come to the Father If not come to Jesus
Ask Samaritans which God they worship?
If they say Father, and reject Jesus than It Will be useless.
Section 841 is totally FALSE. It is a lie.
THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.
1. The god of the Muslims -- Allah -- is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
2. Jesus -- the Angel of the LORD -- appeared to Moses at the burning bush and said that His name is I AM THAT I AM or I AM, and that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob [with the Father and the Holy Spirit not mentioned in that passage, but understood throughout Scripture].
3. Jesus also told the Jews of His day that He is I AM, and that if they do not believe that He is I AM, they will die in their sins.
4. The Koran rejects the deity of Christ and regards Him as simply a prophet inferior to Mohammad. It also rejects the resurrection of Christ.
5. The Judge of all mankind will be the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 17:30,31)
6. Even the Nicene Creed and the Apostle's Creed say that Christ will come to judge the quick (living) and the dead.
7. The CCC is suggesting that Muslims will be saved. That is totally false.
I don't think that they do come to the father. Or at least most of them, in this life.
But coming to the father is probably different than worshipping God.
Unless there's a Bible verse on this subject that I can't think of right off.
The true God, which Catholics say is a trinity.
Most Protestants, including myself, tend to agree that God is a trinity.
The Bible tells us which God the Samaritans were worshipping
2 Kings 17: 32 So they went on worshipping the Lord, and made for themselves, from among all the people, priests for the high places, to make offerings for them in the houses of the high places.
They were worshipping the Lord, which in this verse is the Divine name, the true God.
But it doesn't say that the Samaritans were coming to the father.
Hi Nehemiah6,
Say, what's your take on this verse?
Romans 10: 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Do you agree with how it's translated?
Is the god in that verse the true God?
Physically Coming to the Father is imposible. So i believe coming to the Father is figurative of worship the Father
Than ccc 841 is lie
Muslim not adore or believe in trinity
112.3. "He begets not, nor is He begotten.
لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ
3. "He begets not, nor is He begotten.22. Declaring that God begets not, and nor is He begotten is such an evident principle for the Divine Being that it is mentioned here to refute all creeds that attribute sons or daughters to God. It primarily and categorically refutes the pagans' attribution to Him of the angels as daughters and the Christians' seeing Him as the Father of Jesus, upon him be peace, or their attributing Jesus, upon him be peace, to Him as a son.
And quran do not believe Jesus die oN the cross
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, surah 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157–158[3]
Yes Paul is speaking about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- the one true God. At the same time (as we know from the Gospels) the Jews refused to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God (who is also God the Son). So they were deficient in that respect. And Jesus made it perfectly clear to the unbelieving Jews that unless they believe that He was I AM (the LORD God) they would die in their sins. Exodus chapter 3 provides us with a full understanding of who Christ is, since He appeared to Moses as BOTH the Angel of the LORD as well as God.
John 5
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Mankind's judge is Jesus( verse 22)
Jews that not believe Jesus, not believe Moses, or true God, because Moses is only wrote from God.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Mankind's judge is Jesus( verse 22)
Jews that not believe Jesus, not believe Moses, or true God, because Moses is only wrote from God.
