Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Amen! 1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
-
2
- Show all
All the letters in the NT are addressed to brethren, yet that does not mean that everyone in the group of professing believers is a genuine believer. Don't be so naive. Evil heart of unbelief is the opposite of belief and exposes make believers.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
The wording is not - "and you will become a partaker of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are a partaker of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end."
The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah and the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born again Hebrew Christians who have partaken in Messiah, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Those faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
Just as in Hebrews 4:1-2, we read - "For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; BUT the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were believers. Notice that verses 2-3 make a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
The wording is not - "and you will become a partaker of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are a partaker of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end."
The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah and the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born again Hebrew Christians who have partaken in Messiah, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Those faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
Just as in Hebrews 4:1-2, we read - "For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; BUT the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were believers. Notice that verses 2-3 make a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.
-
2
- Show all
I received this gift.
Now my aim and desire is to defend the truth of it.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
Glory to God!!
Now my aim and desire is to defend the truth of it.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
Glory to God!!
E
I received this gift.
Now my aim and desire is to defend the truth of it.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
Glory to God!!
Now my aim and desire is to defend the truth of it.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
Glory to God!!
But your making it a requirement to be saved
Thats making it a self based salvation not grace based
-
1
- Show all
It’s hard for believers that have the same heart issues of the elder brother of the prodigal son to believe that Father would welcome His prodigal back home with great joy.......
They would rather believe that if a believer leaves the faith after being saved they cannot come back. However, the Father says they can!
They would rather believe that if a believer leaves the faith after being saved they cannot come back. However, the Father says they can!
If we become FAITHLESS, HE abides faithful because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF
JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES the work of faith IN US.
We are justified and saved by the FAITH OF/FROM CHIRST (Galatians)
NO MAN HAS EVER LOST FAITH TO THE EXTENT of losing salvation....to say such a satanic false thing is to flat DENY the above truths and in essence makes GOD into a liar.
WE ARE KEPT BY POWER OF GOD THROUGH FAITH INTO SALVATION (the above faith)
To SAY A MAN can lose faith and lose salvation DENIES the above truths.....and IF THAT CAN HAPPEN....JESUS FAILED IN KEEPING US
I for one am sick of the Jesus devaluing deceivers that peddle a self sustained faith/salvation......and to be frank, PAUL double curses ALL that peddle that crap and those that swallow it are called foolish and bewitched!!
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Your speculation does not line up with the context of Hebrews 3 or with Romans 8:30. Speaking of the CALLED..
Matthew 22:14 - Called (2282 - kletos) in Matthew 22:14 is talking about the general call of the gospel which goes out to all men every time the gospel is preached.
In the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, we read <Adjective, 2822,kletos> "called, invited," is used, (a) "of the call of the Gospel," Matt. 20:16; 22:14, not there "an effectual call," as in the Epistles, Romans 1:1,6,7; 8:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2,24; Jude 1:1; Revelation 17:14; in Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2 the meaning is "saints by calling;" (b) of "an appointment to apostleship," Romans 1:1; 1 Corinthians 1:1.
Called (2564 - kaleo) in Romans 8:30 conveys the idea of an effectual call and emphasizes God's sovereign work. There is a distinction between the called (klhtoi) and the chosen (eklektoi) called out from the called.
Romans 8:30 says ..whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Paul made no implication here whatsoever that those who are called and justified will not be glorified.
Matthew 22:14 - Called (2282 - kletos) in Matthew 22:14 is talking about the general call of the gospel which goes out to all men every time the gospel is preached.
In the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, we read <Adjective, 2822,kletos> "called, invited," is used, (a) "of the call of the Gospel," Matt. 20:16; 22:14, not there "an effectual call," as in the Epistles, Romans 1:1,6,7; 8:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2,24; Jude 1:1; Revelation 17:14; in Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2 the meaning is "saints by calling;" (b) of "an appointment to apostleship," Romans 1:1; 1 Corinthians 1:1.
Called (2564 - kaleo) in Romans 8:30 conveys the idea of an effectual call and emphasizes God's sovereign work. There is a distinction between the called (klhtoi) and the chosen (eklektoi) called out from the called.
Romans 8:30 says ..whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Paul made no implication here whatsoever that those who are called and justified will not be glorified.
-
2
- Show all
E
Rom 11 is not about induvidual believers, It is written to the gentile church as a whole. Not to boast of how great they are. Because if God did not spare Isreal (AD 70 was a prety significant defeat for Israel) he will not spare you either if you as they did turn from me.
Context is your enemy my friend
Context is your enemy my friend
-
2
-
1
- Show all
At the end of the day when the dust settles it is obvious that the self faith salvation sustaining and salvation losing jokers are just like the false accusers that attacked Grace, eternal life and a 100% sustained salvation by Jesus during the days of Paul....They yank one statement or verse out of context, deny context, verb tense etc. to peddle that which is in error....amd one on this thread "Judges" openly admits sin, forsaking the assembly, tramples Jesus under his feet and counts the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing and then wants to lecture us about faith and wilful sin....what a farce!
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Context is my friend:
The "context" starts back at Chapter 10 verse 1.
Brethren, my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Keep that in mind.
Now let's pick it up at chapter 11 verse 20.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith
There is nothing else in the entirety of scripture that speaks of BELIEF, SALVATION, or FAITH that has nothing to do with the gospel, salvation, and believers.
Your enemy is your carnal mind (Romans 8:7) that naturally will not submit to God's law and finds every which way to scheme up ways to avoid being forced into submission to it.
The "context" starts back at Chapter 10 verse 1.
Brethren, my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Keep that in mind.
Now let's pick it up at chapter 11 verse 20.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith
There is nothing else in the entirety of scripture that speaks of BELIEF, SALVATION, or FAITH that has nothing to do with the gospel, salvation, and believers.
Your enemy is your carnal mind (Romans 8:7) that naturally will not submit to God's law and finds every which way to scheme up ways to avoid being forced into submission to it.
-
3
-
1
- Show all
Right here is excatly why you are in error.......rejecting context and skewing the bible to fit your false belief.......Jesus said MANY will come before him and what do they peddle....
a. Lord, Lord <--- claim to know him
b. HAVE WE NOT DONE <--SAME CRAP you and JUDGES PEDDLE
I KEEP MY FAITH, I SUSTAIN MY FAITH, I help Jesus KEEP ME SAVED, I DON'T SIN blah blah blah
Any gospel with "I have or I will" is false.....and leads to hell.
It is all Jesus or fraudulent.....regardless of hiw many think they MUST help maintain that which Christ MAINTAINS, BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES BY HIS POWER......!!!!
a. Lord, Lord <--- claim to know him
b. HAVE WE NOT DONE <--SAME CRAP you and JUDGES PEDDLE
I KEEP MY FAITH, I SUSTAIN MY FAITH, I help Jesus KEEP ME SAVED, I DON'T SIN blah blah blah
Any gospel with "I have or I will" is false.....and leads to hell.
It is all Jesus or fraudulent.....regardless of hiw many think they MUST help maintain that which Christ MAINTAINS, BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES BY HIS POWER......!!!!
-
2
- Show all