Are you bearing good fruit?

Micaiah-imla · May 8, 2020

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple (Luke 14:26).

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men (Mark 7:7-8).

For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:2).

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God (1 Corinthians 7:19).

He that says, I know him, and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4).

14meatcc · May 8, 2020

The idea that good works cant exist without faith is a correct statement. For good works are only good because they stem from the Spirit of God within you. The same Spirit that reveals the truth in the Gospel. You must first have faith in the truth for your faith to produce good works. It's the truth will make you free to keep the commandments of Christ in joyous love. For the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace...etc.
Good works are a biproduct of true saving faith, not the sustaining power of your faith. If you have one the other will be manifest without a doubt.
Good works are not acts of kindness completed as if conquering a feat, but come naturally through your belief in the truth.
They shine through the love you have for God because you know the truth, and the truth has made you free to enjoy the fruits of the spirit and produce good works as a constant that can be burdened by the lusts of the flesh, not an outstanding feat of effort that breaks through the lusts of the flesh from planned time to time.
Let your light shine in front of men to glorify your God in heaven.
God doesn't want your fleshly mind upon the light switch controlling the light, but your heart filled with love and truth through the spirit.
Enjoy the abundant Life Christ offers you. Know the truth and the truth will you free.

Gregoryp · May 8, 2020

Blain said:

thank you , you saved me some typing. And the spiritual attacks aren't sinning wilfully, its spiritual warfare going on, causing me to be deceived or misled. I am yet to discern the call of the Holy Spirit, and Satan is quite capable of emulating him

Blain · May 8, 2020

Gregoryp said:

What you said and the reason I was able to decipher what you said was specifically because what you said was in fact from the holy spirit.
I think you underestimate your ability to hear his call

Blain · May 8, 2020

Micaiah-imla said:

Sorry I had to respond to this I was going through the thread pages to catch up on all I missed but I had to respond to this.
Now it is admirable to teach holy and righteous living but the way you do it is what decides the manner of the message. The way you use scripture is not how it is to be used. You may not be aware of it but the way you are teaching is not one of sound teaching because you use the scriptures in a way that seems like an attack putting others down.
Greg is in no way saying it is okay to sin or live by the flesh but what he is saying is that we stumble for as long as we live in this world we always will be at war with out flesh and sometimes we lose the battle. This topic is already a well beaten horse and yet every time it comes up people don't seem to actually understand what is being said.

BlessedCreator · May 8, 2020

It's all about obedience unto God, which is the righteous and holy life God requires of us to enter His kingdom.
Without obedience you can't have faith. Faith without works is dead. Even just believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is a work of obedience.

Blain · May 8, 2020

Blain said:

Are you that surprised? The holy spirit leads and guides us and the fact you assumed you are not great at hearing his call is probably why you are so adept to it.
That is how it starts after all, the humbleness is what starts the hearing of his voice and then he naturally starts speaking and working through you.

Blain · May 8, 2020

BlessedCreator said:

I would say it is reversed. without faith we cannot hope to be obedient what you have instead is the desire to be obedient but you become legalistic instead and thus you go down a rabbit hole of not sinning but it is by your own efforts not by his.

Micaiah-imla · May 9, 2020

Blain said:

The word of God is supposed to attack us and hit us where it hurts to awake us out of our foolishness (myself included).

Hebrews 4:12
[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Luke 2:35
[35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Proverbs 28:23
[23] He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.

I’m not hear to please men and win friends. I’m here to please God. You know you are on the right path when the majority reviles you for showing pure doctrine.

Blain · May 9, 2020

Micaiah-imla said:

No it is not meant to be used as a weapon against others, it is to be used to edify correct encourage and teach. It is not a blade to cut and stab it is a blade to uphold and to sharpen others. What you are doing is misusing the word of God and I would be careful as to how you use his holy word because it is sacred holy and is not a toy.
I am not here to please either and I also wish to speak his truth however your intentions may be pure but also remember some of the worst things in history were done with pure intentions.

Before you take on the role of a teacher of truth you first must learn to have the heart of a student, and a teacher is unable to allow the student to learn if they just throw their lesson at them in attack form. A student likewise is unable to learn from the teacher if they refuse to see the errors of their ways.if this is how you conduct teaching the truth then you are not fit to be a teacher and need to humble yourself and learn to be a student again

Micaiah-imla · May 9, 2020

Blain said:

There is teaching and there is rebuking and there is correcting. You seem to be taking my post meant to correct someone as teaching.

When dealing with a student or a person in pure ignorance of scripture I would approach them in this manner:

2 Timothy 2:24-26
[24] And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, [25] In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [26] And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

But when dealing with a perceived brother in Christ, who is in error according to the word of God, especially one knowledgeable of the word, then the approach that Christ himself used against the Pharisees is appropriate.

1 Corinthians 4:21
[21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

2 Timothy 4:2-4 KJVS
[2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Ecclesiastes 3:1
[1] To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven

Blain · May 9, 2020

Micaiah-imla said:

True there is a difference in teaching rebuking and correcting, I have no issue with teaching correcting and rebuking but it is the manner in which it is done that I care about. When told you that I didn't know if you knew it but the way you were using scripture seemed like an attack or to put down, you did not refute me but instead spoke of how the word of God is supposed to be used to pierce hearts.
from one point I can understand where you are coming from but on the other hand the way your posts seemed appeared more like a direct attack not breaking through hearts with scripture and that is what concerned me.

Sadly I have seen far to many souls destroyed with scripture rather than healed or taught, the aggressive style hardly ever seems to do any good and with how many new believers who frequent this place it is a dangerous route. I am of course not saying you should be sao gentle that you tickle their ears but I am only suggesting that in your correction you back off a bit on the way you do it, people are far more likely to listen to you in a calm less aggressive manner and I do apologize if I was incorrect in how your way appeared but I just have had to see so many new believers chased off and destroyed with scripture being used as a weapon

MessageOfTheCross · May 9, 2020

MessageOfTheCross said:

Everything that man does dies; everything Jesus does lives forever and is blessed (Psalms 1:3).

If it's done in the flesh, it will consume the person, i.e., "the bush"; however, if it's done by the Power of the Holy Spirit, the bush will burn and not be consumed (Exodus 3:2, Romans 8:2).

Mak33 · May 9, 2020

fruit of the Spirit is (Galatians 5:22-23)
love
joy
peace
longsuffering
kindness
goodness
faithfulness
gentleness
self-control

9 great attitudes that marked the personality of Jesus Christ, qualities that the Holy spirit wants to produce in us.

setting up our "fruit stands" where we display and present the fruits in our lives. Where God has placed us will be where we present our fruits. Our fruit is our testimony.

Fruits and nots - difference in the spirit-filled life and the fruit living in the flesh.

We are to produce fresh fruits more and more and not let our bowl of fruits get bad.

G2RBeliever · May 9, 2020

Philipians 1:11 Being FILLED WITH FRUITS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,which are by Jesus Christ,UNTO THE GLORY AND PRAISE OF GOD.
I agree the Fruit Of the Spirit must be prevelant in us but it also says good fruits,plural.
Does an apple tree bear grapes,no so the fruits we are to bear are other followers as well as works of righteousness.

BlessedCreator · May 9, 2020

You can't even begin to have faith without doing an act of obedience (a work of God He commands us so we can have faith by having a good conscience toward Him).

"believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"

MessageOfTheCross · May 9, 2020

The violent process of separating the wheat and the chaff

“11 I indeed baptize you with water unto Repentance (Water Baptism was an outward act of an inward work already carried out): but He (Christ) Who comes after me is mightier than I, Whose Shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire (to burn out the sinful dross [Acts 2:2-4]):

12 Whose fan is in His Hand (the ancient method for winnowing grain), and He will thoroughly purge His Floor (“purging it, that it may bring forth more fruit” [Jn. 15:2]), and gather His Wheat into the garner (the end product as developed by the Spirit); but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire (the wheat is symbolic of the Work of the Spirit, while the chaff is symbolic of the work of the flesh).” Matthew 3:11-12

WHOSE FAN IS IN HIS HAND

The Work of the Holy Spirit is here outlined, which will, without fail, take place in the hearts and lives of Believers.

The phrase, "Whose fan is in His Hand," refers to the ancient method of winnowing grain.

After the stalks had been pulverized on the threshingfloor, a worker would use a pitchfork of sorts, throwing the grain and the husk in the air.

Another worker, that is, if there was no wind, would use giant palm fronds or some other type of apparatus, fanning the grain and the husk. Consequently, the husks, which were much lighter, would be blown to the side of the threshingfloor, with the grain falling back to the floor.

This would be continued until all the husks were separated from the grain, with the grain being placed into the garner.

The idea is, the primary task of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Believer is to bring about this process, using whatever is necessary in order to separate the chaff from the grain. This "wind" created by the "fan" may come in various ways, such as adversity, persecution, chastisement, etc., but, to be sure, it will come.

As well, it speaks of a violent process, which is not at all appetizing to the flesh, but will prove to be invigorating to the spirit.

DAVID

As an example, one would ask as to why the Lord, after having Samuel anoint David to be the future king of Israel, would allow Saul to persecute him as he did, even causing great tribulation for a period of about 15 years.

The answer is found in Verse 12. Even though David was anointed by God to be the king of Israel, still, there were traits in David’s life that needed to be removed. Regrettably, those traits, as in all of us, could not be removed easily but only by adversity and persecution, which are meant to teach us trust and dependence on the Lord, in other words, that the flesh may be humbled.

David was anointed, but he was not ready! It would take this crucible of persecution by Saul to make him ready!

The story of Moses teaches us that “40 years in the desert was needed to humble the strength of the “flesh” and destroy its hope; the possible king of Egypt was now an obscure shepherd.” Exodus 3:1-2

THE BRANCH

2 Every branch (Believer) in Me (to have Salvation, we must be “in Christ” which refers to trusting in what He did at the Cross) that bears not fruit (the Holy Spirit Alone can bring forth fruit within our lives, and He does such through the Finished Work of Christ, which demands that the Cross ever be the Object of our Faith) He takes away (if the Believer refuses the Cross, ultimately, he will be taken out of the Body of Christ): and every branch that bears fruit (has some understanding of Christ and the Cross), He purges it (uses whatever means necessary to make the Cross the total Object of one’s Faith), that it may bring forth more fruit (only when the Cross becomes the total Object of one’s Faith can the Holy Spirit perform His Work of bringing forth proper fruit [Rom. 8:1-2, 11]). John 15:2

….through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God. Acts 14:22

JSM

MessageOfTheCross · May 9, 2020

MessageOfTheCross said:

THE PURGING OF THE FLOOR

The Phrase, "And He will thoroughly purge His Floor," is actually the violent part of the process.

The Threshingfloor of old generally consisted of a large flat portion of rock that could be used for this purpose.

The grain would be piled on top of this rock (floor), with several different methods used to purge the grain from the husk. At times, an ox cart was used, with it being pulled back and forth across the grain, with its heavy wheels breaking the grains loose from the husk. This was done repeatedly until it was ready to be thrown in the air, as recently stated.

The purging process has to do with what Jesus spoke of in taking away the branches from the tree that did not bear fruit and, consequently, "purging it, that it may bring forth more fruit" (John 15:2).

As stated, this is a violent process, which, at times, makes the Believer think he will not survive it. This has to do with the age old struggle of the "flesh and the Spirit." They constantly war against one another because one or the other must ultimately go. To be sure, this war is not quick, and the battle is not won easily.

THE THRESHINGFLOOR

Many have attempted to circumvent the "threshingfloor" with many and varied schemes, not the least of them being the modern confession principle. However, regardless of how Scripturally valid that it may be in its place, the flesh cannot be confessed out, and this work be effected in one's heart. Too oftentimes, this method only produces more religious flesh. Even though such is covered up with religious phraseology, petted and pampered, and made to seem holy to a carnal world, still it is "flesh" and must ultimately be purged, that is, if we want the Lord.

THE GARNER

The phrase, "And gather His Wheat into the garner," concerns the end product as developed by the Spirit.

Even after Conversion, and especially after Conversion, our Spiritual Eyes are still a mixture of "chaff" and "wheat." The "chaff" constitutes the work of the flesh while the "wheat" constitutes the Work of the Spirit. They must, and without fail, be separated. The reason should be obvious!

Any and all accepted by God can only be that which is the Product of the Holy Spirit. Any product of man, i.e., the flesh, must be rejected out of hand, and not only rejected, but separated and ultimately burned. As stated, this is the great basic Work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Believer. It is a Work that He will carry out with vigor and faithfulness with one view in mind, and that is to "present us faultless before the Presence of His Glory with exceeding joy" (Jude 24).

This is also the reason Jude said, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh" (Jude 23).

UNQUENCHABLE FIRE

He was speaking of this "fire" mentioned by John the Baptist!

The phrase, "But He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire," pertains to that which will be done to the "chaff." This speaks of all our trust and our good works, plus religious acceptance, place and position, and all we prize so highly other than Christ.

Regrettably, this "chaff" abides even in the godliest and, consequently, must be separated, and at whatever price.

JSM

MessageOfTheCross · May 9, 2020

MessageOfTheCross said:

THE PURGED BRANCH

The phrase, "And every branch that bears fruit, He purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit," proclaims the exact opposite of the first phrase.

He plainly tells us that the branch which bears fruit will be purged, which, in the Greek, means "to cleanse, as in to make pure.'

One may wonder as to how fruit could be developed when there is uncleanness and impurities.

The truth is, there are no perfect Christians, but the Lord looks beyond the surface and, as well, the impurities, etc., "searching the heart, trying the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings" (Jeremiah 17:10). The very fact that the branch is bearing fruit shows there is a hunger for God, even a hunger and thirst which are intensifying, desiring all that God has for the Believer.

However, once again, this does not mean perfection, and indeed cannot, at least as long as we live in this body of flesh.

However, many, if not the majority, in the church wrongly interpret purging, thinking it is destruction. As such, they write off such as being of no more consequence. What they do not seem to realize is that the "purging" is not because of a lack of fruit but the very opposite. There has been fruit, and wonderful fruit at that, but the Holy Spirit sees that there is a potential for much more. Consequently, the Father, Who is the Vinedresser, purges the branch in order that it may bring forth "more fruit," which refers to greater quantity, but above all, greater quality.

THE PURGING

The cleansing effect of the purging is brought on by the Word of God; consequently, it is the criterion for all things pertaining to God. In other words, the "Vinedresser" does whatever is necessary to bring one's life in every respect in accordance with the "Word." The actual carrying out of this task is done by the Holy Spirit through Whom the "Vinedresser" works. This is partly what John the Baptist meant when he spoke of Jesus "baptizing with the Holy Spirit, and with fire" (Matthew 3:11-12) This is the refiner's fire, as spoken of by Malachi (Malachi 3:3).

Malachi 3:3 - "And He shall sit as a Refiner and Purifier of silver," refers to the purifier who sits watching the silver and maintaining the temperature; directly when he sees his face reflected in the metal, he stops the process.

The word "clean" in the Greek is "Katharos" and means "to be free from impure admixture, without blemish, spotless, and blameless, " which can only be brought about by the shed Blood of Jesus Christ, with the Believer making that the Object of his Faith.

JSM / John Bible Commentary

MessageOfTheCross · May 9, 2020

MessageOfTheCross said:

con't

“22 Confirming the souls of the Disciples (pertained to the new converts in these areas), and exhorting them to continue in the Faith (it is not he who begins, but he who finishes), and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God (quite a different Message than that being presently proposed).” Acts14:22

Until the time came to fulfill his dreams, the LORD tested Joseph’s character. (Regarding the mission that God had for Joseph, which Joseph was not even aware of, he would have to be put to the test. Faith must be tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly.)” Psalm 105:19 NLT

“10 Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction. (Israel was “refined” in Egypt, and was to be “refined” after Isaiah’s day in Babylon, and will be “refined” during the coming Great Tribulation. The “furnace of affliction” always has to do with wrongdoing on the part of the individual or nation. The Lord allows the affliction, hopefully, that it will bring the person or nation to Repentance! Consequently, Israel still has one great “furnace of affliction” to go through!)” Isaiah 48:10

“7 That the trial of your Faith (all Faith is tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly), being much more precious than of gold that perishes (the emphasis is the testing of our Faith to show whether or not it is genuine; the Holy Spirit says such is more precious than the testing of gold, which is the most precious commodity in the world; is our Faith really in the Cross or not?), though it be tried with fire (the fire of temptation, trouble, etc.; such are meant to show the weakness), might be found unto Praise and Honour and Glory (which can only be done if the Cross of Christ is the sole Object of our Faith) at the appearing of Jesus Christ (we are being prepared by the Holy Spirit as fit subjects for the appearing of our Lord, as it regards the Rapture):” 1 Peter 1:7

“12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you (trials do not merely happen; they are designed by wisdom and operated by love; Job proved this), as though some strange thing happened unto you (your trial, whatever it is, is not unique; many others are experiencing the same thing!):

13 But rejoice (despite the trial), inasmuch as you are partakers of Christ’s sufferings (refers to suffering for Righteousness’ sake); that, when His Glory shall be revealed (refers to His Second Coming), you may be glad also with exceeding joy. (There will be great joy in the heart of every Saint when we come back with the Lord at the Second Coming.)

14 If you be reproached for the Name of Christ, happy are you (should have been translated, “since you are reproached”); for the Spirit of Glory and of God rests upon you (refers to the Holy Spirit): on their part He is evil spoken of, but on your part He is glorified. (This refers to the fact that the world, and even the apostate Church, reproaches this sacred influence of the Holy Spirit by their treatment of true Christians. But if we conduct ourselves correctly, the Lord is Glorified in our lives.)

15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters. (This Scripture plainly tells us that if the Christian doesn’t place His Faith entirely in the Cross, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit, these things Peter mentioned can definitely happen. That’s why it is imperative every Believer knows and understands the Message of the Cross.)

16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian (which sometimes happens for Righteousness’ sake), let him not be ashamed (such a one is not suffering because of lack of Faith, but rather because of his Faith); but let him glorify God on this behalf. (If we truly suffer for Righteousness’ sake, such suffering will always glorify the Lord. We should rejoice accordingly [Vs. 13].)

JUDGMENT

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the House of God (Judgment always begins with Believers, and pertains to their Faith, whether in the Cross or otherwise; the Cross alone is spared Judgment, for there Jesus was judged in our place): and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them who obey not the Gospel of God? (If God will Judge His Own, how much more will He Judge the unredeemed? The Cross alone stays the Judgment of God. Let that ever be understood.)”

“18 And if the Righteous scarcely be saved (can be saved only by trusting Christ and the Cross, and nothing else), where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (If the great Sacrifice of Christ is rejected and spurned, where does that leave those who do such a thing? There is no hope for their Salvation.)

19 Wherefore let them who suffer according to the Will of God (it really doesn’t matter what we have to go through in order to live for God, the end result will be worth it a million times over) commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well doing (victory is assured if we continue to look to the Cross), as unto a Faithful Creator. (This means God hasn’t created an insufficient Salvation. He has created a Way through the Death of Christ that guarantees victory, if we will only follow that Way.)” 1 Peter 4:12-19

“12 Fight the good fight of Faith (in essence, the only fight we’re called upon to engage; every attack by Satan against the Believer, irrespective of its form, is to destroy or seriously weaken our Faith; he wants to push our Faith from the Cross to other things), lay hold on Eternal Life (we do such by understanding that all Life comes from Christ, and the means is the Cross), whereunto you are also Called (Called to follow Christ), and have professed a good profession before many witnesses. (This does not refer to a particular occasion, but to the entirety of his life for Christ.)” 1 Timothy 6:12

JSM

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