Truth

[luigi]

My response is the same...

If climate change is not caused by human activity, would those who believe it is be deceived by Satan?

If climate change were not caused by human activity, then YES, my advocating it being so would indicate me having been deceived by Satan.
The Lord, however, provides us His Word, where He points at man and his love for the things his hands produce, being the cause for the plaques.

So, even though you are not desiring a discussion about "truth" at all, but prefer speculation, I'll entertain you with a question: IF all your conditional requirements are sound, so what? If those who believe climate change is not real are deceived by Satan, so what? People are deceived about a wide range of things; why is this any more of a concern than the deception that causes people to reject Jesus as Saviour?

To answer your "So what" question whether it matters about fossil fuels being responsible for the destruction of the earth seen in Revelation 8; at the conclusion of the beasts reign resulting from the opening of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9 (a.k.a. the sea in Revelation 13), those who have been destroying the earth as a result of these programs, the Lord will then in turn destroy (Revelation 11:18). So unless you plan to be part of the group who worship the things their hands produce, which by extension is among they who are destroying the earth,... we should then heed the Word.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[luigi]

I definitely do not like over generalized statements but...


If climate change IS true, those that advocate otherwise are deceived by data/information/rhetoric that is false or misleading.

The data you would be referring to is that coming from the oil industry and their lobbyists. If, however, we are all influenced by the Lord and the Devil; those lies from the oil industry and their lobbyists origin would then be from Satan, the father of lies and deception.

 

[Dino246]

If climate change were not caused by human activity, then YES, my advocating it being so would indicate me having been deceived by Satan.
The Lord, however, provides us His Word, where He points at man and his love for the things his hands produce, being the cause for the plaques.

So establish your "If". Your point is moot until you do.

To answer your "So what" question whether it matters about fossil fuels being responsible for the destruction of the earth seen in Revelation 8; at the conclusion of the beasts reign resulting from the opening of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9 (a.k.a. the sea in Revelation 13), those who have been destroying the earth as a result of these programs, the Lord will then in turn destroy (Revelation 11:18). So unless you plan to be part of the group who worship the things their hands produce, which by extension is among they who are destroying the earth,... we should then heed the Word.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Again... establish your "If". Until you do, all you have is fear-mongering.

Do you believe that salvation is found only in Jesus Christ? And if you do, do you believe that He is able to keep those who trust in Him? Do you believe His wrath will be poured out on those who have faith in Him, or on those who don't?

 

[Dino246]

The data you would be referring to is that coming from the oil industry and their lobbyists. If, however, we are all influenced by the Lord and the Devil; those lies from the oil industry and their lobbyists origin would then be from Satan, the father of lies and deception.

Tony Heller is neither an oil industry employee nor one of their lobbyists. The same goes for many of the vocal opponents of the climate change agenda.

You're pitching this as a primary issue for the Christian faith. It isn't. You clearly believe the anthropomorphic climate change view, but your presenting your position as though everyone who disagrees with you a child of the devil.

Lighten up. You aren't going to get a reasonable discussion when you start a fight.

 

[luigi]

So establish your "If". Your point is moot until you do.

The "If" is rhetorical as I have established my position in regards to our current climate issues being corroborated by the Word.

Again... establish your "If". Until you do, all you have is fear-mongering.

Better fear of God in adherence to his Word, than denial of His Word, in order to enjoy our current comfortable lifestyles.

Do you believe that salvation is found only in Jesus Christ? And if you do, do you believe that He is able to keep those who trust in Him? Do you believe His wrath will be poured out on those who have faith in Him, or on those who don't?

Yes, salvation is found only in Jesus Christ. Do you understand what faith in Christ means? Faith in Jesus, is to believe in that which He believes, which is to love one's neighbor as themself. If one in their heart believes in loving their neighbor as themself, they would then not be destroying earth's environment, which takes away the means by which their neighbor lives.

 

[EleventhHour]

The data you would be referring to is that coming from the oil industry and their lobbyists. If, however, we are all influenced by the Lord and the Devil; those lies from the oil industry and their lobbyists origin would then be from Satan, the father of lies and deception.

I gather you do not understand the nature of research, while some can purposely be misinformation or lies, one must remember that
"data" is only as good as the assumptions that it is based on.

So to attach morality to research (lies), really just part of that decent of anti-intellectualism that is modern day Christianity.

I think @Dino246 was right this should go in the "Conspiracy Forum"... or the "Speculation Forum".... do we have one of those?

 

[luigi]

Tony Heller is neither an oil industry employee nor one of their lobbyists. The same goes for many of the vocal opponents of the climate change agenda.

You're pitching this as a primary issue for the Christian faith. It isn't. You clearly believe the anthropomorphic climate change view, but your presenting your position as though everyone who disagrees with you a child of the devil.

Lighten up. You aren't going to get a reasonable discussion when you start a fight.

I do not know whether Tony Heller is or isn't affiliated with the oil industry. What I do know, though, and what anyone can easily ascertain is that many individuals who have claimed global warming to be a hoax, have been found to be affiliated to this industry through various clandestine shadow agencies. But whether or not Tony Heller actually believes that our current climate anomalies are not caused by man; the simple fact remains that what the vast majority of climatologists believe and ascertain about our climate emergency correlates with the Word.

 

[luigi]

I gather you do not understand the nature of research, while some can purposely be misinformation or lies, one must remember that
"data" is only as good as the assumptions that it is based on.

So to attach morality to research (lies), really just part of that decent of anti-intellectualism that is modern day Christianity.

I think @Dino246 was right this should go in the "Conspiracy Forum"... or the "Speculation Forum".... do we have one of those?

The Word corroborating the vast majority consensus from climatologists about our climate emergency is not as you call it "Conspiracy Forum" or "Speculation Forum" material. What exactly are you afraid of to make such an assessment?

 

[EleventhHour]

The Word corroborating the vast majority consensus from climatologists about our climate emergency is not as you call it "Conspiracy Forum" or "Speculation Forum" material. What exactly are you afraid of to make such an assessment?

Where is climate change in the Bible?

 

[luigi]

Revelation 9:20 attributes the calamities in Revelation chapters 8 & 9 to the love mankind has for the things his hands produce. Today, the things mans hands produce are primarily produced through industry burning fossil fuels. When Revelation 8 then describes 1/3 of earth's resources being destroyed, we can then recognize these by what we see occurring today by climate change caused through the use of fossil fuels and affiliated means.

As the Lord's angels provide mankind with true illumination as to what will result in the endeavors mankind contemplates to undertake; when the first angel sounds providing mankind with illumination that his undertakings will result in dire environmental consequences, the world’s ruling parties will nevertheless choose to disregard the angels warning, resulting in 1/3 of earth’s trees and all green grass being burned (Revelation 8:7).

Today due to the world’s leaders and titans of industry disregard of global heating caused by increased burning of fossil fuels, the earth as a result is experiencing increasing forest fires throughout many regions.

As the second angel’s sounding warning is also disregarded by the powers that be; a great mountain burning as with fire is then cast into the sea causing 1/3 of earth’s seas to become blood (Revelation 8:8-9).

Today due to agricultural runoff in conjunction with global heating, algae blooms, often referred to as red tides, are becoming more frequent occurrences throughout the worlds oceans, and are causing the death of increasing levels of marine life.

When the third angels sounding illumination of truth is disregarded, a great star burning as a lamp falls upon 1/3 of earth’s rivers and underground aquifers causing them to become bitter and poisonous (Revelation 8:10-11).

Today due to hydraulic fracturing (often referred to as fracking), ever increasing freshwater resources are being made bitter and poisonous.

The star, called wormwood who falls from heaven burning as a lamp is then realized as one of Satan’s angels who provides mankind the illumination for the chemical cocktail to access natural gas from shale deep beneath earth’s surface.

At the fourth angels disregarded sounding warning, 1/3 of the light from the sun, moon, and stars is darkened, and do not shine for 1/3 of the day and night (Revelation 8:12).

Today due to industrial pollution, along with automobile and other atmospheric pollutants, the light from our sun, moon, and stars are considerably less visible than prior to when the industrial revolution began.

 

[luigi]

Where is climate change in the Bible?

EleventhHour, Unless you are quite proficient in the Word, it will be hard to understand all that is described.
In Isaiah 24: 5-6 the world is described defiled and breaking the eternal covenant to responsibly steward to earth, while man adheres to the curse thereby causing the devouring of the earth. The curse results in climate patterns throughout the earth resembling that of a drunkard reeling to and fro, which ultimately brings about the curses permanent downfall, never to rise again (Is 24:20).

Isaiah 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

 

[Dino246]

The "If" is rhetorical as I have established my position in regards to our current climate issues being corroborated by the Word.

"Correlates", not "corroborates".

You haven't established your position. All you have done is posted some Scripture and some opinions.

Better fear of God in adherence to his Word, than denial of His Word, in order to enjoy our current comfortable lifestyles.

Yawn.

Yes, salvation is found only in Jesus Christ. Do you understand what faith in Christ means? Faith in Jesus, is to believe in that which He believes, which is to love one's neighbor as themself. If one in their heart believes in loving their neighbor as themself, they would then not be destroying earth's environment, which takes away the means by which their neighbor lives.

Well, we disagree on what "faith in Christ" means, but I'm not going to argue that here.

However, I will gladly point out your hypocrisy. If you were consistent, you would not be using a computer at all, because it requires electricity and manufacturing, which in turn require the burning of fossil fuels. So, are you going to blather on about climate change while using the very things you decry, or are you going to live what you advocate?

At this point, you have absolutely no integrity, so I suggest you cease this discussion.

 

[EleventhHour]

Revelation 9:20 attributes the calamities in Revelation chapters 8 & 9 to the love mankind has for the things his hands produce. Today, the things mans hands produce are primarily produced through industry burning fossil fuels. When Revelation 8 then describes 1/3 of earth's resources being destroyed, we can then recognize these by what we see occurring today by climate change caused through the use of fossil fuels and affiliated means.

As the Lord's angels provide mankind with true illumination as to what will result in the endeavors mankind contemplates to undertake; when the first angel sounds providing mankind with illumination that his undertakings will result in dire environmental consequences, the world’s ruling parties will nevertheless choose to disregard the angels warning, resulting in 1/3 of earth’s trees and all green grass being burned (Revelation 8:7).

Today due to the world’s leaders and titans of industry disregard of global heating caused by increased burning of fossil fuels, the earth as a result is experiencing increasing forest fires throughout many regions.

As the second angel’s sounding warning is also disregarded by the powers that be; a great mountain burning as with fire is then cast into the sea causing 1/3 of earth’s seas to become blood (Revelation 8:8-9).

Today due to agricultural runoff in conjunction with global heating, algae blooms, often referred to as red tides, are becoming more frequent occurrences throughout the worlds oceans, and are causing the death of increasing levels of marine life.

When the third angels sounding illumination of truth is disregarded, a great star burning as a lamp falls upon 1/3 of earth’s rivers and underground aquifers causing them to become bitter and poisonous (Revelation 8:10-11).

Today due to hydraulic fracturing (often referred to as fracking), ever increasing freshwater resources are being made bitter and poisonous.

The star, called wormwood who falls from heaven burning as a lamp is then realized as one of Satan’s angels who provides mankind the illumination for the chemical cocktail to access natural gas from shale deep beneath earth’s surface.

At the fourth angels disregarded sounding warning, 1/3 of the light from the sun, moon, and stars is darkened, and do not shine for 1/3 of the day and night (Revelation 8:12).

Today due to industrial pollution, along with automobile and other atmospheric pollutants, the light from our sun, moon, and stars are considerably less visible than prior to when the industrial revolution began.

Do you know what year this is going to happen?

 

[Dino246]

I do not know whether Tony Heller is or isn't affiliated with the oil industry. What I do know, though, and what anyone can easily ascertain is that many individuals who have claimed global warming to be a hoax, have been found to be affiliated to this industry through various clandestine shadow agencies. But whether or not Tony Heller actually believes that our current climate anomalies are not caused by man; the simple fact remains that what the vast majority of climatologists believe and ascertain about our climate emergency correlates with the Word.

Vast majority? You surely can't be referring to the "97%" from the IPCC Report (or whatever the number was). That's been debunked completely.

 

[luigi]

"Correlates", not "corroborates".

If it correlates, it then corroborates.

" You haven't established your position. All you have done is posted some Scripture and some opinions.


Yawn.

It may be that you do not wish to acknowledge the truth, thereby accounting for you not offering another explanation for the scriptures I have posted, correlating with and corroborating the majority scientific consensus that our climate emergency today is caused by mans use of fossil fuels.

" Well, we disagree on what "faith in Christ" means, but I'm not going to argue that here.

However, I will gladly point out your hypocrisy. If you were consistent, you would not be using a computer at all, because it requires electricity and manufacturing, which in turn require the burning of fossil fuels. So, are you going to blather on about climate change while using the very things you decry, or are you going to live what you advocate?

At this point, you have absolutely no integrity, so I suggest you cease this discussion.

I did not claim innocence from my part in consuming earth's resources through fossil fuel use. In fact, here in the U.S., though we account for approximately 5% of the population of the earth, we nevertheless account for approximately 25% of its fuel consumption. We in industrialized nations are therefore far more guilty than those in third world developing nation, where 10 or more individuals use about the same level of fossil fuels as we do here in the West.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yawn.

Thanks for the laugh!!

 

[Dino246]

If it correlates, it then corroborates.

Please go and look up the meanings of those two words.

 

[luigi]

Vast majority? You surely can't be referring to the "97%" from the IPCC Report (or whatever the number was). That's been debunked completely.

No use in arguing a 97% figure with anyone, even if it were only 87% or 77%; the devil will bring in its deceivers to falsify what is truth.

 

[Dino246]

No use in arguing a 97% figure with anyone, even if it were only 87% or 77%; the devil will bring in its deceivers to falsify what is truth.

You have a lot of homework, and a lot of unlearning, to do.

 

[laughingheart]

Climate change has been happening since the world began. It has been cooling and heating, moving and changing throughout history. The speed at which these changes are happening might be altering but it is not new. I think a good focus would be on preparing for the changes that are happening. We are to be wise. I would offer that wisdom in this case would be to prepare for flooding, droughts, and changes in agricultural zones due to the shifts. Observing the shifts is one thing, finding reasons is another but then a plan of action for these events is most helpful.