Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If you are talking about the Sin Nature of the flesh, compared to Born Again human spiritual NATURE birthed into us by the Holy Spirit; YES the Sin Nature does occasionally raises it UGLY HEAD; YES IT DOES. Look at 1 John 2:4 for a second, BUT REMEMBER THE GREEK HAS SIX PRIMARY VERB TENSES, WHERE ENGLISH ONLY HAS THREE.
1 John 2:4 (NASB)
4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
That does not describe sinlessness, but a Lifestyle of Striving to KEEP HIS commandments. It is in the Greek Present Tense, implying an ongoing Lifestyle of doing that VERB.
Just like Paul explained:
Philippians 3:12-15 (ESV)
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
HERE READ IT FOR YOURSELF:
Romans 7:15-25 (HCSB)
15 For I do not understand what I am doing, because I do not practice what I want to do, but I do what I hate.
16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
17 So now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is sin living in me.
18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
20 Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.
21 So I discover this principle: When I want to do what is good, evil is with me.
22 For in my inner self I joyfully agree with God’s law.
23 But I see a different law in the parts of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and taking me prisoner to the law of sin in the parts of my body.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this dying body?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.
The Body Certainly is not PERFECT, and the human spirit while it is on the ROAD to Maturity, and Has Many of HIS QUALITIES, but will not BE PERFECTLY SINLESS, until we get SINLESSNESS in the GLORIFIED BODY at the Resurrection.
Revelation 3:2-3 (KJV)
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
You see that word REPENT, it would not be there if WE Humans could be PERFECT meaning SINLESS. IT MEANS SPIRITUALLY MATURE.
2 Timothy 3:17 (KJV)
17 That the man of God may be perfect {spiritually mature}, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
QUOTE:
PERFECT
To be whole or complete; also referred to as “mature.”
Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary. End QUOTE.
G
Matthew 6: 1-4 Jesus tells us not to do our alms before men but let them be done in secret before the Father's eyes that He may reward us openly. This is a continuation of Sermon on the Mount to declare a believers walk including the transcript on how we should pray.
v21 For where YOUR treasure is there will YOUR heart be also.
v21 For where YOUR treasure is there will YOUR heart be also.
G
I believe there is NOTHING I could do to gain GOD'S favour,or the purchase of my redemption!
If I had been the only one in the filthiness of my sins, I believe He would have looked down in His amazing love and said" Yes Father ,for her I will go"
THAT IS GODS AMAZING LOVE,and how wonderful is that gift of grace!
What I'm not understanding is what are " works salvationist"?
We are commanded to feed the hungry,visit the imprisioned,take care of the orphans and widows and to love one another ,to do the Fathers will and follows His commands.
Can someone please list the works or not works we are to do or not do,with scripture suppirting please.? Thank you.... I'm sorry ,if I dont respond to your post I have you on ignore.
If I had been the only one in the filthiness of my sins, I believe He would have looked down in His amazing love and said" Yes Father ,for her I will go"
THAT IS GODS AMAZING LOVE,and how wonderful is that gift of grace!
What I'm not understanding is what are " works salvationist"?
We are commanded to feed the hungry,visit the imprisioned,take care of the orphans and widows and to love one another ,to do the Fathers will and follows His commands.
Can someone please list the works or not works we are to do or not do,with scripture suppirting please.? Thank you.... I'm sorry ,if I dont respond to your post I have you on ignore.
E
Works salvation basically means people are doing specific works, or not doing things, in order to recieve or maintain their salvation (Ie, if We fail to do certain things or do other things we are not to do, we suffer a loss of salvation
salvation is essentially on our works, although if you ask them outright, most will deny they are doing this.
a good example will be to pick water baptism, there are those that claim sin is not forgiven UNTIL we are immersed in water, they are in essence claiming their salvation is based in part on the “work” of water baptism
while the grace people hear gods command, are saved by grace and out of love are obedient to Gods command and get baptized,
there are many types of works which can be included, including following ten commands, going to church, feeding the poor, continuing in faith etc etc, things done in ones own power to maintain or not lose their salvation
look at it this way, what is their motivation? It is self motivating, I do it so I can recieved something, or not lose something, in essence, I can boast in that work (not of works lest anyone should boast)
the grace people do the same things out of love, love for God love for others, while at same time can also do it looking for praise, in which case that act would be done in sin, even though it is technically a good work.
but that is sanctification, we are worried about justification (being saved) here.
salvation is essentially on our works, although if you ask them outright, most will deny they are doing this.
a good example will be to pick water baptism, there are those that claim sin is not forgiven UNTIL we are immersed in water, they are in essence claiming their salvation is based in part on the “work” of water baptism
while the grace people hear gods command, are saved by grace and out of love are obedient to Gods command and get baptized,
there are many types of works which can be included, including following ten commands, going to church, feeding the poor, continuing in faith etc etc, things done in ones own power to maintain or not lose their salvation
look at it this way, what is their motivation? It is self motivating, I do it so I can recieved something, or not lose something, in essence, I can boast in that work (not of works lest anyone should boast)
the grace people do the same things out of love, love for God love for others, while at same time can also do it looking for praise, in which case that act would be done in sin, even though it is technically a good work.
but that is sanctification, we are worried about justification (being saved) here.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
G
Salvation doesnt come through anything we can do though,but we are commanded to show forth our faith in doing the ministry of Jesus as He did.
To me salvation is the unmerited favour of God in the forgiveness of my sins.
This is the starting point of my believers walk,Im not to cling to that but to press toward the mark and high calling of God,not stay at the cross. That is why we believe in the D/ B/& R
To me salvation is the unmerited favour of God in the forgiveness of my sins.
This is the starting point of my believers walk,Im not to cling to that but to press toward the mark and high calling of God,not stay at the cross. That is why we believe in the D/ B/& R
-
2
- Show all
E
It’s simple
do they claim salvation can be lost, based on things we do or do not do
or do they claim eternal life is a gift that can never be lost
that’s the key.
works are a by product of salvation, and depending where people are in their walk, some will have many more works, some may have many less, some you may look at and say, they must be babes in Christ, with hardly any apparent works,
but they are all in Christ,
sadly some want to mix justification and sanctification and claim both are required receive salvation. these are the people you need to watch out for
do they claim salvation can be lost, based on things we do or do not do
or do they claim eternal life is a gift that can never be lost
that’s the key.
works are a by product of salvation, and depending where people are in their walk, some will have many more works, some may have many less, some you may look at and say, they must be babes in Christ, with hardly any apparent works,
but they are all in Christ,
sadly some want to mix justification and sanctification and claim both are required receive salvation. these are the people you need to watch out for
-
4
- Show all
E
I think we get so riled up because of a few select posters, we over react when others come in and agree with them or start saying the same things,
yet we sometimes find they are thinking sanctification, not justification, Ie, they are not understanding the context of the thread, and others over react to them
yet we sometimes find they are thinking sanctification, not justification, Ie, they are not understanding the context of the thread, and others over react to them
-
2
-
1
- Show all
This meme reflects a truth that Pelagians deny.
And, there are some Pelagians on this form undoubtedly.
Charles Finney has also influenced many Christian churches in this regards. He was a Pelagian. Yet, in some circles, he is declared some kind of evangelistic hero.
Unfortunately, even Billy Graham and Chuck Smith made positive comments about this heretic, but I doubt they understood his Pelagian theology.
And, there are some Pelagians on this form undoubtedly.
Charles Finney has also influenced many Christian churches in this regards. He was a Pelagian. Yet, in some circles, he is declared some kind of evangelistic hero.
Unfortunately, even Billy Graham and Chuck Smith made positive comments about this heretic, but I doubt they understood his Pelagian theology.
-
1
- Show all