Three Gods or one? Explain the Trinity.

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jaybird88 said:
you know when you start accusing people of being in some cult it makes you look not so good, it makes you look desperate. the idea of me being a Mormon is pretty crazy, i am from arkansas and my dad is apache, the Mormons were notorious bigits, they murdered a wagon train from arkansas and blamed it on native americans.


i have the Father as the creator, Jesus may have had a part in it, i have no problem believing that, but Jesus said time and time again that His works were not his own but the power of the Father working through Him.
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When you dodge simple normal non evasive neutral questions,you leave it to others to try and see where you are coming from.
Dodging is indicative of hiding.

""i have the Father as the creator, Jesus may have had a part in it, i have no problem believing that, but Jesus said time and time again that His works were not his own but the power of the Father working through Him""

Jesus said "destroy this temple and in 3 days I WILL RAISE it up."

You're stuck in one dimensionslism.

God is not one dimensional.
He is multifacited.
The bible places Jesus and the Father as co equal and co creators.
I can say WITH THE BIBLE Jesus IS CREATOR
I can say the same of the Father.

Two dynamics. Two truths. Parallel truths.

To you,you are somehow threatened.
It makes you reframe verses.

Jesus is a lion
Jesus is a lamb.
Parallel truths...not either < >or.
Same with the Godhead.
It is not what I can cunningly remake it.
It is the word of God recieved, whether I understand it or not.
You are never going to have answers to the deep things of God through mental understanding.
The bible can not be changed because of human reasoning.

That is the error of every cult. They ,without fail,minimize Jesus. His person,place,power,and testimony.
Your beliefs place Jesus below the Father.
In hebrews 1,the Father exalts the Son to the top.
All things are now summed up through Jesus.
Which has zero impact on the fact that all 3 are co equal.
 
biker said:
And how do you suppose ALL 3 dwell in one flesh body?

Because they are SPIRIT!
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Use "entity" instead of person.
Person does not have to be a human with a body.

Let's say I am writing a kids story on Casper the ghost.
On child sees another ghost and starts a conversation. The ghost replies "oh no i am not Casper, that is another person. Meaning entity.
God is 3 entities
1 entity
Both.
 
biker said:
Not actually, He has no DNA from Mary whatsoever, He is still God but in a flesh entity. He really is not human at all. Just is human by God's intent for our Sacrifice. The seed of God was already fertile when planted into Mary. So NO, not even the same.
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Jesus could not have redeemed man if he were not fully man.
Take away the humanity and the entire deal is off.
HAD TO A MAN ON THE CROSS.
HAD TO BE A SECOND ADAM.
HAD TO BE GOD ON THE CROSS.

NON NEGOTIABLE TRUTHS
 
biker said:
And Tertullian joined the Heretic group called Montanism. You really have no clue.
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That's called "silence the message by destroying the messenger"

What workbook do you use that culls out the church fathers clear beliefs that they believed in the trinity?
If so,what have you gained?

You elevate some dead men's writings above the bible,then shoot down anything opposing your exclusive maverick beliefs,but we both know you ain't revealing any sources.
 
""You really have no clue.""
Enlighten me as to the church fathers that were outside the ones you rely on and trust.
List the ones I should not read.
And the ones I should.
 
biker said:
The very same author, Tertullian, who introduced the idea of the trinity later on a became a Montanism, which have been labelled as HERETICS.

  • Sometime before 210 Tertullian left the orthodox church to join a new prophetic sectarian movement known as Montanism (founded by the 2nd-century Phrygian prophet Montanus), which had spread from Asia Minor to Africa.
Tertullian | Christian theologian | Britannica
www.britannica.com/biography/Tertullian


So, if you want to accept someone's ideas who on purpose joined a group Heretics, than be my guest!
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Your link doesn't not work

Provide proof
 
biker said:
The very same author, Tertullian, who introduced the idea of the trinity later on a became a Montanism, which have been labelled as HERETICS.

  • Sometime before 210 Tertullian left the orthodox church to join a new prophetic sectarian movement known as Montanism (founded by the 2nd-century Phrygian prophet Montanus), which had spread from Asia Minor to Africa.
Tertullian | Christian theologian | Britannica
www.britannica.com/biography/Tertullian


So, if you want to accept someone's ideas who on purpose joined a group Heretics, than be my guest!
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Woah...LOOKY WHAT I FOUND!!


""Montanism /ˈmɒntəˌnɪzəm/, known by its adherents as the New Prophecy, was an early Christian movement of the late 2nd century, later referred to by the name of its founder, Montanus.

Montanism held similar views about the basic tenets of Christian doctrine to those of the wider Christian Church, but it was labelled a heresy for its belief in new prophetic revelations. The prophetic movement called for a reliance on the spontaneity of the Holy Spirit and a more conservative personal ethic. Parallels have been drawn between Montanism and modern-day movements such as Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement.""[1]

UH HUH
You really got a handle on them heretics huh???
What baloney
 
Absolutely said:
That's called "silence the message by destroying the messenger"

What workbook do you use that culls out the church fathers clear beliefs that they believed in the trinity?
If so,what have you gained?

You elevate some dead men's writings above the bible,then shoot down anything opposing your exclusive maverick beliefs,but we both know you ain't revealing any sources.
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Is the entire Bible not dead man’s writings? Also those who decided what will be in the canon, also dead men. We among the great debaters of scripture...all eventually dead men. What differenciates anything in essence is who currently holds the power of persuasion. I’m not validating or denouncing anything stated. I just think that the possibility that every thought being perceived accurately to be translated properly to then be understood infallibly includes many variables. Is it even probable that every man that Christ spoke to and continues to speak through will be inserted into the Bible. The Spirit lives in us and reveals much even today.
 
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I hate talking about THE TRINITY...but, for a man to understand, they would have to know THE SON...first

For, without THE SON, who came to manifest THE FATHER, one could not know that FATHER and SON are ONE...

Just as you, are one...

Let me rephrase that, I hate talking about THE TRINITY to people who do not understand because they do not know THE SON...therefore can not understand...
 
Hungry said:
Is the entire Bible not dead man’s writings? Also those who decided what will be in the canon, also dead men. We among the great debaters of scripture...all eventually dead men. What differenciates anything in essence is who currently holds the power of persuasion. I’m not validating or denouncing anything stated. I just think that the possibility that every thought being perceived accurately to be translated properly to then be understood infallibly includes many variables. Is it even probable that every man that Christ spoke to and continues to speak through will be inserted into the Bible. The Spirit lives in us and reveals much even today.
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Bible is written by God
Church fathers not so much.
So,no, the bible written much differently.
Big,big difference.
 
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Absolutely said:
Bible is written by God
Church fathers not so much.
So,no, the bible written much differently.
Big,big difference.
Click to expand...



The only Bible written by God which God (Eshu) quoted was the Tanakh (Isaiah = Prophets).
The other Bible was assembled by men (dead men led by a known pagan who only converted to stay alive when Christians were murdering every nonbelievers).
 
And no, I do not believe the Church Fathers over the inspired Word, but their comments are towards the original Word almost 1500 years before the KJV Bible ever existed. My point is, the KJV should align with the versions the Church Fathers had access to.
 
And my entire argument is based upon what JESUS said, not what anyone else said. And HE said, God is a SPIRIT. HE being GOD knew this discussion would take place 2,000 years later. So I believe, if they were Persons, HE knowing this discussion and all discussions would have said they are Persons. But that is not what HE said. HE said GOD is a SPIRIT: He capped the S on SPIRIT and ended that emphatic statement with :

He was rather conclusive and I see no reason to twist HIS words because of a personal view!
 
Angels are spirits, Sons of God.
Jesus said GOD is a SPIRIT:
You are defining entity and Persons with Spirit based upon HUMAN UNDERSTANDING.
That is why I go with what Christ specifically said.

I see no issue with 3 Spirits Being the One God and that is how I believe because in Heaven they are SPIRIT, like Jesus said!
 
We worship God in Spirit, not in person.

It seems rather clear and logical that JESUS created a theme here for us.

He said, GOD is a SPIRIT: and those who believe in GOD worship HIM in SPIRIT and in TRUTH!

I do not see persons anywhere in what Jesus said.
 
biker said:
The only Bible written by God which God (Eshu) quoted was the Tanakh (Isaiah = Prophets).
The other Bible was assembled by men (dead men led by a known pagan who only converted to stay alive when Christians were murdering every nonbelievers).
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Not what the bible says.
It testifies against what you just said
 
Absolutely said:
Bible is written by God
Church fathers not so much.
So,no, the bible written much differently.
Big,big difference.
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The Bible is written by men who God has spoken to. Then it was interpreted by and discerned by other fallible men. Then read and (mis)understood by other fallible men who tried to teach it again to more fallible men. Unless you read the Bible without preconceptions and pray about what you read, you really have no chance of understanding it. You say the Bible is the word of God, but who said that? Other fallible men who use fear to motivate less understanding men to give them power. The Logos of God is not a book, but a book can help illustrate it and convey it in a literary form. If you don’t understand then you have allowed fallible men to form your thoughts and not God.
 
biker said:
We worship God in Spirit, not in person.

It seems rather clear and logical that JESUS created a theme here for us.

He said, GOD is a SPIRIT: and those who believe in GOD worship HIM in SPIRIT and in TRUTH!

I do not see persons anywhere in what Jesus said.
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Rev 5 has him as a human man in heaven taking the scroll from the father.
So is a human man a person?
 
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