What if Daniel did have a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks?

[cv5]

^ Not exactly.

The "I will punish you SEVEN TIMES more" applies only to the "360 yrs remaining."

IOW, it is not what the original "490 years" [i.e. "70 Weeks"] is about.

It is easy to CONFLATE the two DISTINCT time[-related] prophecies in Dan9. But they ARE distinct.




And then, don't forget about the "blindness [/hardening]... UNTIL" (Romans 11:25[15]).

Correct. Guess what? 360 X 7= May 14, 1948. God gives birth to the nation in ONE DAY Isa 66:8.

Is there a real Israel in THE LAND today? Absolutely. Are real Israelites populating it? Abolutely.
Furthermore I just saw many REAL ISRAELITES in my city yesterday. They were UNMISTAKEABLE.

Read Isa 60. And hundreds of similar chapters declaring the certain near future restoration of nation Israel.

 

[cv5]

Missing would be everything in scripture between Jesus’ baptism in the autumn of 27 AD., the onset of the 70th week. Running up through Stephen’s martyrdom in the autumn of 34 AD. Which marks the end of the 70th week.

This would mean no Christianity of the 70th week. No savior Jesus. No gospel. No crucifixion. No Pentecost or Holy Spirit. Or anything else that depends on all the missing pieces destroyed in the gap.

It would mean only a future Antichrist, exchanged for Christ in the 70th week. A Temple with Animal sacrifices. A different Messiah than the New Covenant provided. And centuries of wasted lives now in hell from what we would then call the cult of Christendom.

The date of 70AD fits NOTHING as far as any prophecy of exact timing given in scripture.
Christ only stated its near destruction.....no date provided. Does not in any way fit Dan ch 9.

 

[Dave-L]

The date of 70AD fits NOTHING as far as any prophecy of exact timing given in scripture.
Christ only stated its near destruction.....no date provided. Does not in any way fit Dan ch 9.

It covers what the prophecy established within the 70 weeks time frame. That is, all was spoken for and made sure then. Repercussions in time began then.

 

[Dave-L]

Study out where Genesis speaks of "SEED [SINGULAR]" and "SEED [PLURAL]," to ascertain specifically what PAUL is speaking of here in Galatians.



[hint: no one is disagreeing that Christ is central and necessary for all to be fulfilled as prophesied. But if we BLUR TOGETHER these DISTINCT references in Genesis to "SEED [SINGULAR]" and "SEED [PLURAL]" we miss the point he is making and miss other points also, blurring/marring the picture]

Paul says Jesus is Abraham's seed and the physical Seed is not.

 

[cv5]

It covers what the prophecy established within the 70 weeks time frame. That is, all was spoken for and made sure then. Repercussions in time began then.

No. The 70th week of years (7 years) fits nowhere, not at Christ's birth, TE, cruxifixion.....nothing.
The preterist view fails in every way, including prophecy. Please reconsider your error. Most importantly, Jesus has warned His Church PROFUSELY that He could return AT ANY MOMENT. Be prepared.

 

[Dave-L]

No. The 70th week of years (7 years) fits nowhere, not at Christ's birth, TE, cruxifixion.....nothing.
The preterist view fails in every way, including prophecy. Please reconsider your error. Most importantly, Jesus has warned His Church PROFUSELY that He could return AT ANY MOMENT. Be prepared.

If you see Jesus fulfilling the prophecy in the middle of the 70th week, which is the only interpretation the grammar allows for. (Prince is always the same person), without a topic change. And try to see with spiritual eyes how everything revolves around the 70th week. The future related elements were set into motion then and fell out accordingly. Jesus taught Amillennialism but the Pharisaic Millennialists were spiritually blind and could not see the kingdom.

 

[Diakonos]

It covers what the prophecy established within the 70 weeks time frame. That is, all was spoken for and made sure then. Repercussions in time began then.

The date of 70AD fits NOTHING as far as any prophecy of exact timing given in scripture.
Christ only stated its near destruction.....no date provided. Does not in any way fit Dan ch 9.

This was made clear in post #70. Very hard to argue with the math.

 

[cv5]

Our conclusions have to be consistent with what the Word says.

Gabriel said 70 weeks.
שָׁבוּעַ shâbûwaʿ"week"="heptad" (a unit of 7). But the question is: A unit of 7...what? days? weeks? months? years?
Well...Moses gives us some insight in Gen 29:26-28:

"But Laban said, “It is not the practice in our place to marry off the younger before the firstborn.
"Complete the week of this one, and we will give you the other also for the service which you shall serve with me
for another seven years.” Jacob did so and completed her week, and he gave him his daughter Rachel as his wife."

Someone might object to this meaning of the word שָׁבוּעַ shâbûwa. But here's where it becomes clear that "7 years" IS the meaning of each "week" in Daniel 9:24-27:

69 x (7 years) = 483 years = 173,880 days.
We know that this timeline began on March 14, 445 BC (The "issuing of a a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem" by King Artaxerxes) Neh 2:1-8.
Exactly 173,880 days after that decree, Jesus came to Jerusalem riding on a donkey, The Triumphal Entry....which fits perfectly with Gabriel's prophesy because Jesus was "cut off" (killed/crucified). In His Triumphal Entry, Christ, in fulfillment of Zechariah 9:9, officially presented Himself to the nation of Israel as the Messiah. He was evidently familiar with Daniel’s prophecy when on that occasion He said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes” (Luke 19:42).

So what this tells us is that the weeks of Daniel's prophesy are units of 7 years. This means that the 70th week is a 7-year period just like the rest.

According to Dan 9:26 the Anointed One was not “cut off” in the 70th “seven”; He was cut off after the 7 and 62 “sevens” had run their course. This means that there is an interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens.” Christ’s crucifixion, then, was in that interval, right after His Triumphal Entry, which concluded the 69th “seven.” This interval was anticipated by Christ when He prophesied the establishing of the church (Matt. 16:18). This necessitated the setting aside of the nation Israel for a season in order that His new program for the church might be instituted. Christ predicted the setting aside of the nation (Matt. 21:42–43).

Because this prophecy is "for your people" (vs 24=The Jews, not the Gentiles)...
...The present Church Age is the interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens.”

Flawlessly correct. Well done.

 

[Dave-L]

This was made clear in post #70. Very hard to argue with the math.

The born again saw the kingdom arrive as foretold. The spiritually blind did not and still look for it. Thinking it is physical. The fact that you cannot see it aligns perfectly with your assessment of God in post #98 https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...xplain-the-trinity.191756/page-5#post-4228991

 

[Diakonos]

Flawlessly correct. Well done.

I had a little help.
The only thing I didn't mention is that when you actually check the math on a calculator you might find get 176,295 days
(121 days off)....but that's because we use a roman calendar of 365 days. But the Jews had a 360 day calendar. So when you account for these 173,880 days (with a Jewish calendar), it leads right up to the Jesus' Triumphal entry perfectly.

 

[Diakonos]

The born again saw the kingdom arrive as foretold. The spiritually blind did not and still look for it. Thinking it is physical. The fact that you cannot see it aligns perfectly with your assessment of God in post #98 https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...xplain-the-trinity.191756/page-5#post-4228991

We don't care what you think people see or don't see. We care about what the Bible says. This is the "Bible discussion" forum. Maybe you should go spend some time in the "heavenly recipes" since you like to whip things up.

I have not received a single response from anyone, disagreeing about the analogy I made concerning the possible model of the Trinity. You have simply complained that you don't like it. But you haven't refuted anything

 

[Nehemiah6]

The born again saw the kingdom arrive as foretold. The spiritually blind did not and still look for it.

You continue to talk NONSENSE because you have no clue about Bible prophecy.

Why don't you back up and do a proper study before saying anything more? You are accusing Christians who take the Bible in its plain literal sense as being "spiritually blind" when that actually applies to you. While the Kingdom of God is not visible on earth today, that does not mean that it will not be visible in the foreseeable future.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul says Jesus is Abraham's seed and the physical Seed is not.

Another false idea. Why don't you read and study my post on the Abrahamic covenant, which was posted recently and seems to be getting no attention?

 

[Dave-L]

Another false idea. Why don't you read and study my post on the Abrahamic covenant, which was posted recently and seems to be getting no attention?

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” Galatians 3:7 (KJV 1900)
“And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Galatians 3:29 (KJV 1900)
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” Galatians 3:16 (KJV 1900)

What's the link to your post?

 

[Dave-L]

You continue to talk NONSENSE because you have no clue about Bible prophecy.

Why don't you back up and do a proper study before saying anything more? You are accusing Christians who take the Bible in its plain literal sense as being "spiritually blind" when that actually applies to you. While the Kingdom of God is not visible on earth today, that does not mean that it will not be visible in the foreseeable future.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)
What makes you think you are born again if you cannot see the kingdom?

 

[Nehemiah6]

What's the link to your post?

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...nal-blessings-to-israel-and-the-world.191841/

 

[Dave-L]

We don't care what you think people see or don't see. We care about what the Bible says. This is the "Bible discussion" forum. Maybe you should go spend some time in the "heavenly recipes" since you like to whip things up.

I have not received a single response from anyone, disagreeing about the analogy I made concerning the possible model of the Trinity. You have simply complained that you don't like it. But you haven't refuted anything

I could never trust your views on scripture since your post #98 https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...xplain-the-trinity.191756/page-5#post-4228991

 

[Diakonos]

You continue to talk NONSENSE because you have no clue about Bible prophecy.

Why don't you back up and do a proper study before saying anything more? You are accusing Christians who take the Bible in its plain literal sense as being "spiritually blind" when that actually applies to you. While the Kingdom of God is not visible on earth today, that does not mean that it will not be visible in the foreseeable future.

Good point.
To be Spirit-filled is to be Word-filled because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth (Jn 14), the Spirit of knowledge (Isa 11:2).
Amillennialism is a cop out.; an excuse to be Biblically lazy and not really study Bible prophesy. With Amillennialism, one can simply say "Its all spiritual, you can't tell me when/what the Kingdom of God is going to be like", instead of diligently handling the word of truth accurately.
“For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.” (1 Corinthians 11:19)

 

[Nehemiah6]

What makes you think you are born again if you cannot see the kingdom?

What makes you think I cannot see the Kingdom of God?

THE MYSTERIES OF THE KINGDOM IN PARABLES AS PRESENTED BY MYSELF

The Lord Jesus Christ called His parables “the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven” in the Gospel of Matthew (chapter 13), but in Luke 8 they are called “the mysteries of the Kingdom of God”. Which tells us that it is improper exegesis to try to put a difference between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God.

But because they are called “mysteries” it means that they apply to Christendom – what appears to be the Kingdom of God on earth today – but is not necessarily a true representation of the Kingdom of God (since the tares and the wheat are present at the same time). Therefore we need to understand the meaning of “mysteries” in this context.
The Greek word μυστήριον (mustérion) means either that which is hidden and is now revealed, or that which remains hidden to those without spiritual understanding. But it also means that ordinary everyday objects and creatures are used to illustrate deep spiritual truths hidden under them. Yet it also means that Jesus was deliberately hiding His teachings from His enemies, but revealing them to His disciples (and to the children of God, who are within the Kingdom of God).

1. The Parable of the Sower: The field is the world of humanity, and Christ is the Sower of the seed of the Gospel and Bible truth. The various types of soil represent the various types of human hearts and their receptivity to the Gospel. We learn from this that only a small fraction of those who hear the Gospel will be saved, and only a small number of those who are saved will be fruitful. This also ties in with the Parable of the Harvest in the Gospel of Mark, which teaches us that just as a harvest takes time to develop, the harvest of souls and the development and maturing of the saints takes time. It does not happen overnight. Again we have the Parable of the Fig Tree in Mark, which ties into this and points to the future redemption and restoration of Israel after the Second Coming of Christ.
2. The Parable of the Wheat and Tares: This ties right into the Parable of the Sower, since while the Good Sower was sowing good seed, the Enemy of the Sower (Satan) was sowing tares – weeds which appear to be wheat on the outside, but are not on the inside. This speaks of those who are false professors, claiming to be Christians, without the inner reality of the New Birth and the indwelling Holy Spirit. They are to be found in all the churches, but they are not saved.
3. The Parable of the Mustard Seed: Illustrates the fact that whereas the Gospel had a very small beginning with Christ and His apostles, Christianity and the Gospel have since spread worldwide, and there is not a single person who has not heard of Jesus (whether they believe in Him or not). The birds of the air are the false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, and false brethren, which are associated with Christianity but undermine it all the time.
4. The Parable of the Leaven: Ties right into the existence of false brethren, who are not saved, but bring sin and evil into the churches. Leaven is always a metaphor for sin, evil, and corruption, and the churches began to be infiltrated with leaven even while the apostles were on earth. The pure Kingdom of God will not have any leaven, but Christendom does.
5. The Parable of Treasure Hidden in a Field: This veers away from what was being taught earlier, and reveals that the true Church, the Body of Christ, which is found within Christendom, is hidden from the view of men. The Church is precious to God and Christ, therefore Christ gave Himself as a sacrifice (a whole burnt offering) for the Church, and God and Christ rejoice in the existence of the true Church.
6. The Parable of the Pearl of Great Price: This parable further illustrates the value of the Church to God, who says that He makes up His jewels.
7. The Parable of the Good and Bad Fish: This is similar to the parable of the wheat and tares, where the good fish are the children of God while the bad fish are the children of the devil.

We will not be able to understand the apostasy which exists in Christendom unless we see that God anticipated this through the parable of Christ. And since this was all about the true Church and the counterfeit Church, the unbelieving Jews had no idea as to what was being taught here. Even many Christians today do not understand the hidden meaning of the parables.

 

[Dave-L]

What makes you think I cannot see the Kingdom of God?

THE MYSTERIES OF THE KINGDOM IN PARABLES AS PRESENTED BY MYSELF

The Lord Jesus Christ called His parables “the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven” in the Gospel of Matthew (chapter 13), but in Luke 8 they are called “the mysteries of the Kingdom of God”. Which tells us that it is improper exegesis to try to put a difference between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God.

But because they are called “mysteries” it means that they apply to Christendom – what appears to be the Kingdom of God on earth today – but is not necessarily a true representation of the Kingdom of God (since the tares and the wheat are present at the same time). Therefore we need to understand the meaning of “mysteries” in this context.
The Greek word μυστήριον (mustérion) means either that which is hidden and is now revealed, or that which remains hidden to those without spiritual understanding. But it also means that ordinary everyday objects and creatures are used to illustrate deep spiritual truths hidden under them. Yet it also means that Jesus was deliberately hiding His teachings from His enemies, but revealing them to His disciples (and to the children of God, who are within the Kingdom of God).

1. The Parable of the Sower: The field is the world of humanity, and Christ is the Sower of the seed of the Gospel and Bible truth. The various types of soil represent the various types of human hearts and their receptivity to the Gospel. We learn from this that only a small fraction of those who hear the Gospel will be saved, and only a small number of those who are saved will be fruitful. This also ties in with the Parable of the Harvest in the Gospel of Mark, which teaches us that just as a harvest takes time to develop, the harvest of souls and the development and maturing of the saints takes time. It does not happen overnight. Again we have the Parable of the Fig Tree in Mark, which ties into this and points to the future redemption and restoration of Israel after the Second Coming of Christ.
2. The Parable of the Wheat and Tares: This ties right into the Parable of the Sower, since while the Good Sower was sowing good seed, the Enemy of the Sower (Satan) was sowing tares – weeds which appear to be wheat on the outside, but are not on the inside. This speaks of those who are false professors, claiming to be Christians, without the inner reality of the New Birth and the indwelling Holy Spirit. They are to be found in all the churches, but they are not saved.
3. The Parable of the Mustard Seed: Illustrates the fact that whereas the Gospel had a very small beginning with Christ and His apostles, Christianity and the Gospel have since spread worldwide, and there is not a single person who has not heard of Jesus (whether they believe in Him or not). The birds of the air are the false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, and false brethren, which are associated with Christianity but undermine it all the time.
4. The Parable of the Leaven: Ties right into the existence of false brethren, who are not saved, but bring sin and evil into the churches. Leaven is always a metaphor for sin, evil, and corruption, and the churches began to be infiltrated with leaven even while the apostles were on earth. The pure Kingdom of God will not have any leaven, but Christendom does.
5. The Parable of Treasure Hidden in a Field: This veers away from what was being taught earlier, and reveals that the true Church, the Body of Christ, which is found within Christendom, is hidden from the view of men. The Church is precious to God and Christ, therefore Christ gave Himself as a sacrifice (a whole burnt offering) for the Church, and God and Christ rejoice in the existence of the true Church.
6. The Parable of the Pearl of Great Price: This parable further illustrates the value of the Church to God, who says that He makes up His jewels.
7. The Parable of the Good and Bad Fish: This is similar to the parable of the wheat and tares, where the good fish are the children of God while the bad fish are the children of the devil.

We will not be able to understand the apostasy which exists in Christendom unless we see that God anticipated this through the parable of Christ. And since this was all about the true Church and the counterfeit Church, the unbelieving Jews had no idea as to what was being taught here. Even many Christians today do not understand the hidden meaning of the parables.

But only the born again can see the kingdom. And you reject it preferring the Pharisee version instead.