Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

I will not have arrived until I have endured following after it. Suffering the loss of all things for it.

Since you believe it cannot be obtained, you will never have it nor allow others to seek after it.

The sad part of it is you work for what has already been accomplished. An insult to Christ Jesus

I cannot believe 500 years since the Reformation we see once again misguided monks that believe "religious piety" saves.

Most disturbing.

 

[EleventhHour]

No it is not.

The gospel is faith in Jesus Christ.

The narrow gate is HOW you walk in that faith.

Whoever has taught this has taught you wrong.

 

[Lightskin]

The gospel is faith in Jesus Christ.

No it’s not. Jesus Christ is the Gospel and the Gospel is Jesus Christ.

 

[CherieR]

Amen, So it makes no sense in what they are saying. if we look at reality

Not really. Yet I can understand where one may trouble with fully taking in Christ's forgiveness for oneself. The understanding of God's forgiveness through Jesus needs to move from just knowing in the head and go to the heart. This is what I desire to grasp in my heart and core of my being His grace, love and forgiveness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will not have arrived until I have endured following after it. Suffering the loss of all things for it.

Since you believe it cannot be obtained, you will never have it nor allow others to seek after it.

oh boy

I truly feel sorry for you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not really. Yet I can understand where one may trouble with fully taking in Christ's forgiveness for oneself. The understanding of God's forgiveness through Jesus needs to move from just knowing in the head and go to the heart. This is what I desire to grasp in my heart and core of my being His grace, love and forgiveness.

Amen

Satan wants us to doubt, becuse if he can get us to doubt, He has access to our lives..

 

[VCO]

I appreciate your well thought out post here. The zeal and passion you have is admirable. It truly saddens me that I cannot agree with you; as much as in me is I try to live peaceably with all men. But, like you, I have a zeal to defend the truth. Jesus said I came not to bring peace, but division (Luke 12:51). Believers truly are divided; there a multitude of denominations out there.

What provoked me to post what I posted was this statement:

A believer is still a sinner, yet is not a sinner in God’s eyes because God no longer sees the believer as a sinner. He gets labeled as “righteous” though he be not righteous. This is not just at the point of belief, but continues through out the believers lifetime on earth.

Is this the belief of genuine OSAS?

Entering the Wide Gate leads to destruction, not to exiting the gate. It leads to destruction because they remain inside the confines of the Wide Gates’ entrance. When the gate keeper arrives, then their destruction comes. Those found in the area where the Narrow Gate lead will be eternally secure.

Those who eventually fall away and leave the belief exit the Gate regardless of which Gate they entered, the Wide or Narrow.

The works of non-believers is filthy rags, not the works of the believer. The works of the believers is his reasonable service.

You say Salvation is not through us. This scripture says otherwise:

And you, that at one time were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and reproveable I his sight: if you continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel (Colossians 1:21-23).

Salvation is maintained by me because I have to continue in the faith grounded and settled and not be moved away from it.

I believe many have been turned over to their lusts for not following righteousness and tampering with the word of God and have succumbed to doctrine of devils. Many of these run the Bible colleges and the church organizations that belong to them. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed as an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

If it’s true that sinners are labeled as “righteous” regardless if they are righteous or not; how would it be possible to identify Satans angels who label themselves as “righteous” as well? To say nothing of the deceitful workers who transform themselves as the apostles of Christ.

First of all, I do not expect you to AGREE with me, but to CEASE calling less than truly Born Again Assumers to ALSO INCLUDE TRUE OSAS Believers. Their Supposed definition of OSAS, is as BAD AS YOURS.

You are a BULL in a China shop, thrashing about and BREAKING EVERY THING with YOUR ASSUMED Falsehoods. Like I said, YOU do not know the FIRST THING about what WE WHO TRULY BELIEVE IN OSAS, who teach OBEDIENCE is product of LOVING HIM with the same kind of LOVE that HE POURED INTO OUR HEARTS, Rom. 5:5, that is TOTALLY separated from SALVATION that happened WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED.

However, YOU, seem to have a VENDETTA against OSAS while using a FALSE DEFINITION of what OSAS MEANS, that YOU insist that is what we mean. YOUR OPINION of what OSAS means, which is FAULTY as a DELIBERATE LIE, JUST TO MAKE US LOOK BAD.

Where did you get to GIANT FIBS about our BELIEFS, actually come from. YOU CERTAINLY DID NOT GET THEM FROM US?

Your GIANT FIBS, are not limited to the following, but are a CONTINUOUS Fabricated INSULTS about our Beliefs.

And OSAS seems to be an easy path to God.
No suffering in the flesh is required,
no righteous living,
no cessation from sin.
OSAS is that WIDE GATE spoken of in Matthew 7:13, and many there truly be that go in there at.

I had to get my frustration out, and I see YOU finally ask a serious question, so I will answer that in my NEXT POST.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

The sad part of it is you work for what has already been accomplished.

No.

What has been accomplished at the cross is the redemption of the believers sins that are past (in the believers life prior to coming to the knowledge of the truth).

God has set forth Christ to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins THAT ARE PAST (Romans 3:25).

Please don’t give the “how many of your sin were future when Christ died” nonsense.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Whoever has taught this has taught you wrong.

The Bible is never wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Bible is never wrong.

Your right

But the Pharisee could quote the OT word for word, so it proves that just because you can quote some passages does notmean you understand what they mean

 

[Judges1318]

heb 10

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

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9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


(vs 10 "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all)



22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

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23-23Not a warning but encouragement to His children who are sanctified and perfected forever through CHRIST


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24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

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26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
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If you truly believe this is saying willful sin will make you lose the once and for all forever sacrifice of sin, you must also believe if you sin once on purpose you lost salvation forever.... He sat down, also read hebrews 6


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27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
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We are His children... not adversaries.... like vs 13 who He will make His footstool AFTER SITTING DOWN and perfecting us forever through Jesus

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39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


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Romans 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

This is telling us the sacrifice of Christ doesn't have to be repeated and so it's effect is forever. It doesn't say you can't lose the benefit of the sacrifice that doesn't have to be repeated and lasts forever. But osas has decided the 'forever' in Hebrews 10 is you can't lose it. When what it actually says is 'forever' means Christ does not have to be re-sacrificed like under the old system. Nothing there about not being able to lose it.

This is made even more clear by the time you get to vs. 26 where the author says this forever sacrifice that doesn't need to be repeated is no longer available to the person who willfully goes back to his life of sin after being sanctified by faith in the forever sacrifice. It's right there in easy to read print. I couldn't in good conscience tell people it doesn't really say that, or that it doesn't really mean what it says.

 

[Judges1318]

And you believe God would shun someone who endured such overwhelming despair that they lost faith in Him?

I would say He would take mitigating factors into consideration and would give them time to reconsider accordingly, like He did for the Galatians.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

oh boy

I truly feel sorry for you

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ...if by any means I MIGHT attain unto the resurrection of the dead. NOT AS THOUGH I HAD ALREADY ATTAINED, either were already perfect: but I follow after...Brethren, I count NOT myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do...I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:8-14).

 

[Judges1318]

Remember, God is love, and love dictates that we embrace such people. Shunning people who are hurt goes against the very essence of God and the Gospel.

If they really are hurt.
But outright arrogance is to be punished by shunning - 1 Corinthians 5:1-12
Turn them over to the flesh and the devil so that the flesh can be crucified and they can MAYBE be saved when Jesus comes back, if they cooperate and come to their senses. Otherwise they will not be saved.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

First of all, I do not expect you to AGREE with me, but to CEASE calling less than truly Born Again Assumers to ALSO INCLUDE TRUE OSAS Believers. Their Supposed definition of OSAS, is as BAD AS YOURS.

You are a BULL in a China shop, thrashing about and BREAKING EVERY THING with YOUR ASSUMED Falsehoods. Like I said, YOU do not know the FIRST THING about what WE WHO TRULY BELIEVE IN OSAS, who teach OBEDIENCE is product of LOVING HIM with the same kind of LOVE that HE POURED INTO OUR HEARTS, Rom. 5:5, that is TOTALLY separated from SALVATION that happened WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED.

However, YOU, seem to have a VENDETTA against OSAS while using a FALSE DEFINITION of what OSAS MEANS, that YOU insist that is what we mean. YOUR OPINION of what OSAS means, which is FAULTY as a DELIBERATE LIE, JUST TO MAKE US LOOK BAD.

Where did you get to GIANT FIBS about our BELIEFS, actually come from. YOU CERTAINLY DID NOT GET THEM FROM US?

Your GIANT FIBS, are not limited to the following, but are a CONTINUOUS Fabricated INSULTS about our Beliefs.

And OSAS seems to be an easy path to God.
No suffering in the flesh is required,
no righteous living,
no cessation from sin.
OSAS is that WIDE GATE spoken of in Matthew 7:13, and many there truly be that go in there at.

I had to get my frustration out, and I see YOU finally ask a serious question, so I will answer that in my NEXT POST.

No sir.

No assumed falsehood. That’s a falsehood you assume about me. Where’s the Agape love in saying this to me? I give you the benefit of the doubt that your sincere in your belief, but yet you cast abominable language at me. Beware, friend. God sees all.

I have no personal vendetta against anyone here. We are chatting about Bible doctrine. And by humility and a respectful loving exchange can we come to unity, not by biting one another and provoking one another.

My doctrine is not mine, but God’s. This is where I get my knowledge of the error of OSAS (as how some teach it).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ...if by any means I MIGHT attain unto the resurrection of the dead. NOT AS THOUGH I HAD ALREADY ATTAINED, either were already perfect: but I follow after...Brethren, I count NOT myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do...I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:8-14).

yep

But Paul KNEW where he was going

If did not work to earn something he knew he could not earn

Remember also. Paul as saul was a pharisee. Who were considered the most morally upright people in their day.

 

[Judges1318]

With a peaceful heart I tell you that if you believe you can lose your salvation by an action of your own doing then you are placing the emphasis of your salvation upon yourself.

I don't see my believing as putting the emphasis on me in salvation because the Bible tells us to believe and to keep believing.

 

[CherieR]

Sometimes remembering God is with you can make the difference.

 

[Bbrdrd]

You say faith without works is not faith at all and yet works is not needed for salvation. That’s a contradiction.

We have free will and I choose to serve God. I love God because He first loved me. You constantly take terms that pertain to the world and try to implement them into the supernatural.

There's no contradiction because it is works of the law that are being distinguished when no works are required. Works of faith are not works of the law, nor are they simply good works. There is no faith without corresponding works,

I have no idea what your latter accusation is supposed to be addressing.

 

[Bbrdrd]

How much obedience does it take?

I keep hearing all this Obedience, and I know a good child wishes to obey

But how much obedience is required to earn salvation.

This s a salvation thread not a sanctification thread. So when you bring obedience into a salvation thread. You are bound to get questions.

How much obedience is required to earn salvation. Can you say?

Who's said anything about earning salvation? If one thinks their works are earning their salvation than they are outside the bounds of Biblical faith. You speak of salvation and sanctification as two separate things, yet I don't see such a distinction Biblically as those who are being saved are also being sanctified. All these theological distinctions are artificial constructs of men.