Not By Works

[Judges1318]

Living "worthy" of the gospel doesn't for one moment mean we can live in a way which deserves God's grace.
🤦‍♂️

I didn't say it did.
I posted the verse to show you that "we can only be grateful for it (God's mercy)" is not the only thing you can do.
You can live worthy of God's grace, just as Paul exhorts us to do.
That's something else you can do besides just being grateful for God's mercy. And that has nothing to do with earning it.

 

[Judges1318]

i'm sorry; i haven't followed that part of the conversation in this thread. i'm not able to keep up with all of the things going on in here

I keep being accused of believing a works gospel because I say one must continue to believe to the very end to be saved.
I'm pretty sure that's not how Paul defined the works gospel.

 

[Judges1318]

Then it is not really a gift is it?

Since when is a gift defined as something you can not take back???

I'm pretty sure it's defined as something you give for free.
That's how Paul defined it.

 

[Guojing]

Salvation is a gift, it cannot be earned. It is only obtained by belief in the gospel. This is step 1.

Step 2: After receiving the free gift, you must continue in God’s goodness and walk worthy of the vocation wherewith you were called (Romans 11:22; Ephesians 4:1).

So if you don't walk worthy, God takes back that gift that he freely gave you?

 

[Judges1318]

Oh you're still making dishonest strawmen....🤦‍♂️

....and you haven't been following this thread.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Then it is not really a gift is it?

If you had a debt of $100,000 and I decided to give you a gift of $100,000; and also taught you how to not get in debt again; then you decide to ignore my financial advice and rack up another insurmountable debt; does your irresponsible behavior make what I gave you earlier something other than a gift?

 

[EleventhHour]

If you had a debt of $100,000 and I decided to give you a gift of $100,000; and also taught you how to not get in debt again; then you decide to ignore my financial advice and rack up another insurmountable debt; does your irresponsible behavior make what I gave you earlier something other than a gift?

Not possible to get into debt again... the debt of ALL sin has been completely paid.

Sin was dealt with at the cross, there is nothing outstanding.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

So if you don't walk worthy, God takes back that gift that he freely gave you?

[sigh]

The gift isn’t taken back.

It’s squandered by the gift RECEIVER.

God will simply just say to you, Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and will not do what I say?

 

[Lightskin]

You always sound just like Jesus.

I didn’t read anything past the above words. You finally said something correct and didn’t want it ruined by reading the temper tantrum that no doubt followed. Thanks for playing, sport.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

I didn’t read anything past the above words. You finally said something correct and didn’t want it ruined by reading the temper tantrum that no doubt followed. Thanks for playing, sport.

Ah, I see labels save. The sacred cow of the Christian label. You're a Christian so you're going to heaven.

That has nothing to do with anything. Have you repented and been baptized? Do you abide in His Word? Do you deny your soul, take up your cross and follow Him daily, or do you walk in your way? Is He head over all things for you? Do you abide in Him? Do you live in the Spirit? Do you love Him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength? Has He circumcised your heart?

The world doesn't need to see more Christian hypocrites (not that everyone is, they aren't) what they need to see is disciples of our Lord for whom He is King. That was a charge against the early believers - "They say there is another King!" Hardly the charge today.

 

[Judges1318]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.



If there is a specific verse which troubles you, feel free to post what you believe it to mean in context as you have many times.

The copy and paste jumbled out of context verses technique saves time, I'm sure... but if you are trying to suggest any of the verses you posted, in context, say that a born again child of God can ever "lose salvation" then I disagree and it is on you to show where you believe scripture says that....


You have never once even been able to ask a question I couldn't answer using scripture and with a clean conscience towards God and my own beliefs in regards to what He has put in His written word. Even if you often just "disagree" and go to different verses which still flow in perfect harmony with eternal security.

Why does the Bible exhort us to keep on believing?
I'm being accused of believing a works gospel for saying it is necessary to keep believing in order to be saved.

 

[Judges1318]

At least you are clear enough to state that you believe faith AND works are both required for salvation. I can respect that.

As long as it's understood that the works themselves do not earn the declaration of righteousness necessary to be saved.

 

[Lightskin]

You're a Christian so you're going to heaven.

Winner! Well said, sport. 😎

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Not possible to get into debt again... the debt of ALL sin has been completely paid.

Sin was dealt with at the cross, there is nothing outstanding.

You didn’t answer my question.

However, your response here is at the heart of the matter.

Why are believers told to repent of their sins by Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:21; then told to examine themselves at 13:5 because of this sin?

If what you are saying is true, why is Paul wasting his time writing those words to them?

 

[Guojing]

[sigh]

The gift isn’t taken back.

It’s squandered by the gift RECEIVER.

God will simply just say to you, Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and will not do what I say?

He would have dropped the gift?

 

[EleventhHour]

You didn’t answer my question.

However, your response here is at the heart of the matter.

Why are believers told to repent of their sins by Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:21; then told to examine themselves at 13:5 because of this sin?

If what you are saying is true, why is Paul wasting his time writing those words to them?

We still sin.

 

[azamzimtoti]

I didn’t read anything past the above words. You finally said something correct and didn’t want it ruined by reading the temper tantrum that no doubt followed. Thanks for playing, sport.

Tis k tis k . . .

 

[Judges1318]

You have never once even been able to ask a question I couldn't answer using scripture and with a clean conscience towards God and my own beliefs in regards to what He has put in His written word.

I'm curious if you can, with a clean conscience, make 'sanctified' in vs. 29 in the context of this passage not mean a saved person:


8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

16“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,

17“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:8-31 (bold and underline emphasis added by me)


I have been told vs. 26 through vs. 31 'doesn't really' mean a sanctified, saved person, but rather unbelievers who are sanctified, like an unbelieving spouse who is sanctified for a believing spouse. But the context plainly tells us he is talking about sanctified, saved people. Can you in good conscience decide that even though 'sanctified' means a saved person all the way up to vs. 29, it suddenly without explanation means an unsaved sanctified person in vs. 29? I can't. I'm too honest to tell somebody that.

When God says, through the author, that a sanctified, saved person who sins willfully in a trampling on the blood of Christ in unbelief has no sacrifice remaining for that sin and only has the Judgment of God's enemies to look forward to that pretty well convinces me that osas is NOT true. One has to create another 'not really' interpretation to keep this from being the obvious non-osas passage that it is.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

We still sin.

Jesus says, Go and sin no more (John 5:14; 8:11).

Paul says, do not sin (1 Corinthians 15:34).

Why don’t you do what they say?

 

[EleventhHour]

Jesus says, Go and sin no more (John 5:14; 8:11).

Paul says, do not sin (1 Corinthians 15:34).

Why don’t you do what they say?

I need my face palm emoji back!