Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

I have continued to believe for over 20 years now. Praise the Lord! It’s not an extremely difficult burden to continue to believe. It all comes down to whether or not faith was firmly rooted and established in the first place.

It comes down to is God faithful or not.

Why would we lose faith if God remains faithful?

Of course we would not..

 

[dcontroversal]

The following quote is false, contrary to the bible and the Holy Spirit of God does not lead a child of God to peddle such a deceitful lie!

If you stop believing you are no longer a part of God's elect that you should have some kind of protection against having charges brought against you.

The promises only apply to believing people, not ex-believers.

 

[EleventhHour]

It comes down to is God faithful or not.

Why would we lose faith if God remains faithful?

Of course we would not..

That is the key ...... God is faithful

 

[dcontroversal]

It comes down to is God faithful or not.

Why would we lose faith if God remains faithful?

Of course we would not..

How can anyone say they must maintain faith to stay saved when the bible clearly states that JESUS IS THE ONE that finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith in us.....to say we can lose faith and then be lost absolutely 100% denies the above truth and makes Jesus/Paul into liars....

 

[dcontroversal]

​

defamation of character can certainly involve libelous accusations about a person's opinions, and misrepresentations of what they are.

Why not say -- as some slanderously claim that we say -- "Let us do evil that good may result"? ​

(Romans 3:8) ​

​

these kind of attacks, upon hearing the pure gospel of Christ, have been made from the beginning.
ask yourself what Paul was preaching that would cause some to make this accusation?

Amen.....the slanderous lie that those who embrace eternal security and the out bounding grace of God when sin abounds in a believer is no different than the deceivers that accused Paul of the same thing!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is the key ...... God is faithful

Amen

Our faith is in his trustworthiness, Do we trust him to keep his word. or do we doubt he has the power to keep his word. His truthfulness or his ability, or his faithfulness to do what he promised.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How can anyone say they must maintain faith to stay saved when the bible clearly states that JESUS IS THE ONE that finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith in us.....to say we can lose faith and then be lost absolutely 100% denies the above truth and makes Jesus/Paul into liars....

Because when you get down to the root of things

Their faith is in self. not God.

They just CLAIM to have faith in God. but in reality, they do not.

 

[dcontroversal]

Because when you get down to the root of things

Their faith is in self. not God.

They just CLAIM to have faith in God. but in reality, they do not.

Exactly and exactly why they say.....LORD LORD DID WE NOT blah, blah, blah in your name.....

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

I was once in a conversation with a Seventh Day Adventist who continually stressed, Gospel of the "Kingdom" and made sure that he always capitalized "Gospel" and he spent most of his time in the Old Testament and the 4 gospel accounts, yet had nothing to say about (Acts 15:7; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 1:13, 3:1-9 etc..).

According to him, the Gospel is Jesus and Jesus is the word of God and we are to believe in and live by every word of it, which implies works salvation. It was no coincidence that the "Gospel" this Seventh Day Adventist promoted, culminated in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9) It was him who made this statement below:

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Interesting to hear the perspective of a misguided SDA. Sad.

The external act of murder is now the internal hatred. The external act of adultery is now the internal lust. The seventh day rest is now all 7 days, the Sabbath-rest for the people of God where we cease from our own labors to now do His will. Those who abide in Him walk as He did. He didn’t budge when He heard Lazarus was sick, though He loved him, until the Father commanded Him to go. As His disciples we live from above the sun (as opposed to the ‘under the sun, under the sun’ of Ecclesiastes). As His sheep, we listen to His voice, diligently. We live on every Word which proceeds from His mouth. He is our King and we are under His authority through the ministry of the indispensable Holy Spirit. Churchianity does not teach this, the Kingdom of God.

 

[posthuman]

Everyone has the ability to come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved.

​

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.​

(John 6:44)​

​

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” ​

(John 6:63-65)​

​

He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God. ​

(John 8:47)​

​

And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”​

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are One.”​

(John 10:23-30)

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
(John 6:37)​

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

A. Disagree.....we are to judge ALL things by the Word of God

Correct but not each other

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly and exactly why they say.....LORD LORD DID WE NOT blah, blah, blah in your name.....

Exactly

And why the lord will say depart for I NEVER knew you

They think because they THINK they practice righteousness, this is not written to them

That's where they are wrong.

 

[posthuman]

​

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.​

(John 6:44)​

​

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” ​

(John 6:63-65)​

​

He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God. ​

(John 8:47)​

​

And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”​

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are One.”​

(John 10:23-30)​

​

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. ​

(John 6:37)​

@Micaiah-imla

please take notice there is no verbiage in any of this about people 'giving themselves' to Christ.
it is ubiquitously, being given to the Son by the Father.

You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. ​

(John 17:2-3)​

​

I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.​

(John 17:6)​

​

I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. ​

(John 17:9)​

​

Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. ​

(John 17:11)​

​

Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.​

(John 17:12)

Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me
(John 17:24)​

​

@Micaiah-imla if you found that you disagreed with Jesus, would you re-evaluate your thoughts, however hard to accept His words may be? or would you ignore Him in favor of what 'makes more sense' to the judgements of your own mind?

 

[mailmandan]

Interesting to hear the perspective of a misguided SDA. Sad.

The external act of murder is now the internal hatred. The external act of adultery is now the internal lust. The seventh day rest is now all 7 days, the Sabbath-rest for the people of God where we cease from our own labors to now do His will. Those who abide in Him walk as He did. He didn’t budge when He heard Lazarus was sick, though He loved him, until the Father commanded Him to go. As His disciples we live from above the sun (as opposed to the ‘under the sun, under the sun’ of Ecclesiastes). As His sheep, we listen to His voice, diligently. We live on every Word which proceeds from His mouth. He is our King and we are under His authority through the ministry of the indispensable Holy Spirit. Churchianity does not teach this, the Kingdom of God.

That doesn’t really answers my questions and sounds vague and ambiguous. So what does Churchianity teach? In your other post you said Christianity was full of Satanically charged doctrine of demons/the false doctrines of Christians/the Christian Church.

 

[posthuman]

You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:2-3)

I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
(John 17:6)

I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
(John 17:9)

Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
(John 17:11)

Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(John 17:12)

Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me
(John 17:24)

John 17, the high-priestly prayer.

7 times the saved are said to be those who are given to the Son

[SARCASM]
probably just a coincidence and only a figure of speech huh
probably really it means only those who give themselves to Him of their own accord huh
probably it's by our own desire and will and effort huh
[/SARCASM]

 

[Micaiah-imla]

What's not to cherish about eternal security of the believer in Christ? Do you instead prefer to cherish fear and bondage to IN-security? Can you show me just one verse in the Bible that specifically says, "lose or lost salvation?" I've noticed that ALL false religions and cults teach salvation by works AND strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me and I've noticed that even professing believers who subscribe to NOSAS are quick to join hands with them and sing, "kumbaya" in unity over believing in NOSAS and attacking OSAS believers, which is truly something to behold.

I cherish the truth, and I suspect you would say the same. I’ve come to have a certain level of respect for you. Now, I do not cherish bondage and IN-security anymore than you prefer a “license to sin”. You see, I give you the benefit of the doubt and out of loves sake assume you genuinely believe in OSAS because you believe it is truth from the Bible, not because you love your sin. I would not insult you like that.

I cannot show you a verse that says “you loose salvation” anymore than you can produce a verse that says “once saved, always saved”.

Have you ever considered that even a “cultist” can be correct on certain doctrines? I do not dismiss everything OSAS believers say, if what they say agrees with scripture.

Consider easing your red flag detector, it’s set on high sensitivity.

Also, I don’t attack people. I rebuke false doctrine. I hope we can continue to respectfully disagree and let the Spirit work in both of us to reveal truth.

 

[posthuman]

God restricting himself to Abraham and his descendants from then on?

ever heard of a guy named Naaman?

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

That doesn’t really answers my questions and sounds vague and ambiguous. So what does Churchianity teach? In your other post you said Christianity was full of Satanically charged doctrine of demons/the false doctrines of Christians/the Christian Church.

Check which post of yours I was responding to.

You asked me those questions last year and I responded, as you said yesterday you seemed to remember. You seemed condescending. I'm careful with pearls.

But I think you can hear the Good News I'm talking about in what I just wrote; didn't really talk about the death part but I did touch on the resurrection part, through which Jesus Christ becomes King of our lives. Jesus Christ is One to speak in parables 'so that seeing they may not see.' Nevertheless, I've said it explicitly many times before on this thread and The Way, Which Gospel and My Conversion.

 

[EleventhHour]

you can produce a verse that says “once saved, always saved”.

Since OSAS IS the Gospel it can be found everywhere:

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 8:30

more over.......

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

John 1:12-13: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

John 6:44-47: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

and on and on.......

 

[Micaiah-imla]

if you found that you disagreed with Jesus, would you re-evaluate your thoughts, however hard to accept His words may be? or would you ignore Him in favor of what 'makes more sense' to the judgements of your own mind?

It is also written that God would have all men to be saved and to come of the knowledge of the truth, is it not? And if God would have all men to be saved, couldn’t he just draw all men unto him?

It seems you want to void out one scripture in favor of another. I let both stand a let the Spirit decide when to use either one for whatever purpose the Spirit chooses.

My own mind has no influence on me, the word of God in my heart does.