Not By Works
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I'll grant you that Jesus doesn't EXPLICITLY say that the "fire" is the Lake of Fire...but the Greek "pyr" that the branches are cast into is the same "pyr" found in the Book of Revelation when it references the Lake of Fire or associated fire. Anyone who has never heard or subscribed to OSAS IMMEDIATELY understands that the "fire" Jesus speaks of refers to destruction.
Another one who's never read On The Jews And Their Lies. Please find me the page where Luther expresses a desire to see the Jews persecuted or their synagogues burnt to the ground.
Hint: hit "Control+F" and type in "synagogue" and see at which time he says anything even remotely to a desire to see them burned down.
Hint: hit "Control+F" and type in "synagogue" and see at which time he says anything even remotely to a desire to see them burned down.
Wrong...through SURRENDER to Christ. I should not have to explain to such learned, well informed, erudite OSAS scholars that when a person is surrendered to Christ, He sits on the throne of his heart and lives out His life through that person...which result is good works, the evidence that Christ sits enthroned.
The problem is that OSAS refuses to believe Paul when he says the unsaved man cannot render good works, even if he desired to (Romans 8:7 KJV), but only the saved and surrendered man can exhibit good works (Philippians 2:13 KJV) because Christ's life is lived out in him and through him.
The problem is that OSAS refuses to believe Paul when he says the unsaved man cannot render good works, even if he desired to (Romans 8:7 KJV), but only the saved and surrendered man can exhibit good works (Philippians 2:13 KJV) because Christ's life is lived out in him and through him.
2 Chronicles 30:8 (NCV)
8 Don’t be stubborn as your ancestors were, but obey the LORD willingly.
Come to the Temple, which he has made holy forever.
Serve the LORD your God so he will not be angry with you.
Isaiah 57:16 (ESV)
16 For I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry;
for the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made.
Jeremiah 3:12 (HCSB)
12 Go, proclaim these words to the north, and say: Return, unfaithful Israel. ⌊This is⌋ the LORD’s declaration. I will not look on you with anger, for I am unfailing in My love. ⌊This is⌋ the LORD’s declaration. I will not be angry forever.
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There is no such thing as Gentiles being cutoff, the "fullness of the Gentiles" a much misunderstood term relates to the preaching of the gospel throughout the then known world, then the "end" would come:
(Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature)
(Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.)
(Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister)
Paul stated the gospel had gone to the nations - "every creature", that he had finished his course, the course Jesus gave him.
(2 Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith)
(Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature)
(Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.)
(Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister)
Paul stated the gospel had gone to the nations - "every creature", that he had finished his course, the course Jesus gave him.
(2 Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith)
Your good works are a product of your faith in the truth. If it's not faith in the truth in the word of God then it is not true saving faith.
Good works aren't a planned event, but an overflow of your faith. How can one do good works by physical feats when the determination of deeming it "good " is upon the receiving party. Your good works are a constant manifest of your belief and knowledge of the truth. Know the truth and the truth will make you free. Free to openly enjoy the kingdom of heaven (which is love peace and righteousness in the holy spirit) free to love God without obligation or stipulation (for that what's pleasing to him)your good works are woven in with true saving faith. You can't have one without the other. They were deemed good by God when your salvation was sealed sometime in eternity past. If you believe in the truth your good works will manifest without effort. Does this make sense to anyone?
Good works aren't a planned event, but an overflow of your faith. How can one do good works by physical feats when the determination of deeming it "good " is upon the receiving party. Your good works are a constant manifest of your belief and knowledge of the truth. Know the truth and the truth will make you free. Free to openly enjoy the kingdom of heaven (which is love peace and righteousness in the holy spirit) free to love God without obligation or stipulation (for that what's pleasing to him)your good works are woven in with true saving faith. You can't have one without the other. They were deemed good by God when your salvation was sealed sometime in eternity past. If you believe in the truth your good works will manifest without effort. Does this make sense to anyone?
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you still don't make much sense to me. all i said was **bump** and i am in fact the one who put the link to the pdf of that text into the discussion. i sent it to you because you said you have never read any of what he wrote against the Jews.
i bumped it so no one would have to just take someone else's word for what Luther wrote, they can read it for themselves.
you still don't make much sense to me. all i said was **bump** and i am in fact the one who put the link to the pdf of that text into the discussion. i sent it to you because you said you have never read any of what he wrote against the Jews.
i bumped it so no one would have to just take someone else's word for what Luther wrote, they can read it for themselves.
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Quite the opposite, the thread works to shelter and protect the true gospel against its adversaries.
Not sure why we are talking about the Torah?
This is your first answer after I talked about law, so forgive me if from what you said I assumed you don’t read the Torah anymore.
The big debate with me on this website is that I say the Torah (Translated as law ) is still relevant to us today because Jesus said everything in the law/Torah is about him. In saying that people will immediately start fighting, they don’t listen further. This is also why I say His Torah because Moses wrote it down but it is all about Him given to us by Him. If we can’t read the Torah and see Jesus in everything we read we are reading it wrong.
I countered your accusation that this thread was sowing discord.
There is only one Gospel and only Christ Jesus.
That is the point of this thread.
So if there is discord it is the result of false teachers teaching otherwise.
No, the discord on many threads is that somebody is believing something different than me/you/everybody. Sure there ae trolls trying to earn their soapbox moments, but for the most of it the infighting is because there is a group saying Torah/law is still relevant and then there is a group saying we are under grace only.
Fact of the matter is:
I am not disagreeing with that.
Not sure why we are talking about the Torah?
This is your first answer after I talked about law, so forgive me if from what you said I assumed you don’t read the Torah anymore.
The big debate with me on this website is that I say the Torah (Translated as law ) is still relevant to us today because Jesus said everything in the law/Torah is about him. In saying that people will immediately start fighting, they don’t listen further. This is also why I say His Torah because Moses wrote it down but it is all about Him given to us by Him. If we can’t read the Torah and see Jesus in everything we read we are reading it wrong.
I countered your accusation that this thread was sowing discord.
There is only one Gospel and only Christ Jesus.
That is the point of this thread.
So if there is discord it is the result of false teachers teaching otherwise.
No, the discord on many threads is that somebody is believing something different than me/you/everybody. Sure there ae trolls trying to earn their soapbox moments, but for the most of it the infighting is because there is a group saying Torah/law is still relevant and then there is a group saying we are under grace only.
Fact of the matter is:
- Grace is not a New Testament concept and we were always saved by grace through faith
- People should forget about the works argument because in ourselves works are like filthy rags, but in Christ our works will change and we will be rewarded because of our obedience. Matthew 25:31-40
- Law/Torah is still relevant because Jesus said everything in the Torah is about Him.
I am not disagreeing with that.