Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Dan_473]

Yes

Sure thing then, I'll attempt to answer your question.

So what is : " Muslim is in the plan of salvation because adore abraham god mean?"

The exact answer to your question is that the words that you have put in quotation marks is a collection of phrases from the lumen gentium.

I don't think what you've got in quotes is actually a quote from that document.


But I think what the writers of lumen gentium are getting at is the idea that some Muslims will be saved, especially those who have never heard the name of Jesus, or who have never heard a truthful description of Jesus.


and that's why I was asking you about what happens to people who have never heard about Jesus.


If I remember right, in the end you said you didn't know. So, it follows that Catholics may be correct that some Muslims who have never heard accurately about Jesus have the possibility of heaven, and as such are included in the plan of salvation.

 

[Dan_473]

The letter is to small...

I know what you mean!


but there are often options for making the text size bigger. What kind of device are you using?


I'm using an Android mobile phone that fits in my pocket. but I found ways to make the text nice and large.

 

[cv5]

Why is it true for Jesus and Paul but not Jude?

No, I'm not Roman Catholic. I am interested in reducing divisions within the body of Christ.

I just told you why. This precident is well established. You choose to disagree at your peril.
RC doctrine is pushing for all-inclusiveness. This has been prophecied as the push toward a global system of FALSE worship is now underway. RC's are at the point of the spear in this regard.

Study the concept of a "remnant" and "little flock".

BTW Satan knows that he is most effective by infiltrating the Church and corrupting it from within.

IMO.....the truly saved will always exit from the RC church (sooner or later), as they, by the Spirit, will know the Truth.

 

[Dan_473]

The letter is to small, so I read some but I am not agree that the Christian was from Rome.

Say it is from Rome, usually if they meet 43 mile away, they only sent some delegation view people only, the elderly or children not go with them, then they make welcome party in Rome, but that was not happen.

Not a verse say there was a church in Rome prior that. No sign of Peter et all that mean what catholic teach pope is peter successor is lie

It's fine if you don't want to think they came from Rome, but that's what the text seems to indicate. So, if you are a person who puts lots of emphasis on what the Bible says, then it makes sense to go with what the text indicates, imo.


Maybe the Roman Christians had access to horses or horse-drawn carts. Maybe they took several days to make the journey.


No verse states that there was or was not a church in Rome at that time.

Peter may have been away visiting other churches.


It does not follow, logically, that there was no successor to Peter.

 

[Dan_473]

The letter is to small, so I read some but I am not agree that the Christian was from Rome.

Say it is from Rome, usually if they meet 43 mile away, they only sent some delegation view people only, the elderly or children not go with them, then they make welcome party in Rome, but that was not happen.

Not a verse say there was a church in Rome prior that. No sign of Peter et all that mean what catholic teach pope is peter successor is lie

One thing I forgot to add, it's possible there was no welcoming party in Rome because Paul and the prisoners are delivered to the captain of the guard.

Then Paul is kept under guard while staying at his own apartment. Perhaps the guard doesn't want a welcoming party.

 

[Jackson123]

Sure thing then, I'll attempt to answer your question.




The exact answer to your question is that the words that you have put in quotation marks is a collection of phrases from the lumen gentium.

I don't think what you've got in quotes is actually a quote from that document.


But I think what the writers of lumen gentium are getting at is the idea that some Muslims will be saved, especially those who have never heard the name of Jesus, or who have never heard a truthful description of Jesus.


and that's why I was asking you about what happens to people who have never heard about Jesus.


If I remember right, in the end you said you didn't know. So, it follows that Catholics may be correct that some Muslims who have never heard accurately about Jesus have the possibility of heaven, and as such are included in the plan of salvation.

Quote
126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things

End quote

I quote from the document Dan not from news paper, and the document state the reason.

It say because:" along with us adore the one and mercyfull God."

I don't know why you pretend to not understand that sentence.

Can we have honest discussion? Or we don't have discussion et all

Why we not being honest, we want to find the truth for my benefit and yours

What we get for lie in this discussion?



And the document say

 

[Jackson123]

I know what you mean!


but there are often options for making the text size bigger. What kind of device are you using?


I'm using an Android mobile phone that fits in my pocket. but I found ways to make the text nice and large.

I am using small tablet, some article I am able to make it bigger, some not

 

[Jackson123]

It's fine if you don't want to think they came from Rome, but that's what the text seems to indicate. So, if you are a person who puts lots of emphasis on what the Bible says, then it makes sense to go with what the text indicates, imo.


Maybe the Roman Christians had access to horses or horse-drawn carts. Maybe they took several days to make the journey.


No verse states that there was or was not a church in Rome at that time.

Peter may have been away visiting other churches.


It does not follow, logically, that there was no successor to Peter.

I never read a verse that Peter in Rome. President Trump in Washington, news paper mention it million time. I believe it also in the official document.

Bible is official document, why never mention Peter, the president of apostle in Rome et all?

You say :"must be Peter successor" why?
And do you believe must be Paul successor too?

 

[cv5]

Sure thing then, I'll attempt to answer your question.




The exact answer to your question is that the words that you have put in quotation marks is a collection of phrases from the lumen gentium.

I don't think what you've got in quotes is actually a quote from that document.


But I think what the writers of lumen gentium are getting at is the idea that some Muslims will be saved, especially those who have never heard the name of Jesus, or who have never heard a truthful description of Jesus.


and that's why I was asking you about what happens to people who have never heard about Jesus.


If I remember right, in the end you said you didn't know. So, it follows that Catholics may be correct that some Muslims who have never heard accurately about Jesus have the possibility of heaven, and as such are included in the plan of salvation.

Hearing the Gospel, repenting and receiving Jesus for Who He Is....Lord and God, and persevering in faith is the NARROW WAY to salvation. This repentance and knowledge OF JESUS itself is a gift of God to begin with.

Are you suggesting a different way, a different door, another gospel?

 

[Jackson123]

One thing I forgot to add, it's possible there was no welcoming party in Rome because Paul and the prisoners are delivered to the captain of the guard.

Then Paul is kept under guard while staying at his own apartment. Perhaps the guard doesn't want a welcoming party.

Not mention in the Bible

It say guard give him permission to have metting with the Jews, why not Christian?

23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

This verse tell us how generous the guard was they let the meeting from morning till evening

 

[knowhim]

Well, to be real I would ask if Catholics are even saved with what they believe?

Are Catholics saved? Do Catholics go to heaven? It depends. If the question is “are there saved Catholics?” then the answer is “yes.” If the question is “will a person go to heaven if he or she holds to the official Roman Catholic doctrine of salvation?” the answer is “no.”

Being close to the truth is dangerous and it will not save you, only Jesus can save you and you don't have to go through and anyone else.

 

[garee]

I never read a verse that Peter in Rome. President Trump in Washington, news paper mention it million time. I believe it also in the official document.

Bible is official document, why never mention Peter, the president of apostle in Rome et all?

You say :"must be Peter successor" why?
And do you believe must be Paul successor too?

What would Peter being in Rome have any thing do with the gospel ?

 

[Jackson123]

What would Peter being in Rome have any thing do with the gospel ?

What would Peter being in Rome have any thing do with the gospel ?

They believe Peter was a leader of Christian and reign from Rome, that mean pope must be the world Christian leader because pope is peter successor. The fact that Peter never reside in Rome will delegetimized pope as a Christian leader as Peter successor.

I don't know if Peter was the leader of all apostle and Christian, and Peter never in Rome

So catholic is lie

 

[garee]

They believe Peter was a leader of Christian and reign from Rome, that mean pope must be the world Christian leader because pope is peter successor. The fact that Peter never reside in Rome will delegetimized pope as a Christian leader as Peter successor.

I don't know if Peter was the leader of all apostle and Christian, and Peter never in Rome

So catholic is lie

Jesus was the lead apostle who followed the Father The father spoke to him face to face .The apostles did not lord it over each other or the pew sisters, the church . Venerating apostles violates the first commandment or called blasphemy . .

They had that kind of evil desire. "Who is the greatest take two steps forward" but Jesus used parables to teach them who are the "us" and who are they who went out because they were not of the "us" as defined by the parables used in that teaching. They had no faith or instruction how to hear the us .

 

[Jackson123]

Well, to be real I would ask if Catholics are even saved with what they believe?

Are Catholics saved? Do Catholics go to heaven? It depends. If the question is “are there saved Catholics?” then the answer is “yes.” If the question is “will a person go to heaven if he or she holds to the official Roman Catholic doctrine of salvation?” the answer is “no.”

Being close to the truth is dangerous and it will not save you, only Jesus can save you and you don't have to go through and anyone else.

The question is can you be catholic and believe Jesus teaching in the same time?

To be catholic you have to accept all catholic teaching and catholic believe Islam God(Allah) is also catholic god

Lumen gentium II/16/126

Quote
126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things

End quote

But the plan of salvation also include ............along with us(catholic)adore the one and mercyfull god.....


Let do math/ deductive logic
So catholic and Islam share the same god

Islam god is Allah

So catholic god is Allah


Can you believe in Jesus and Allah in the same time?

Can you believe Jesus teaching and be catholic in the same times.

That is my question

 

[Dan_473]

If you read this publication, I agree with New York time, BBC news, the guardian etc Vatican say not to convert jews

Do you mean Jews are not allowed at Catholic masses?

 

[Dan_473]

When can address the Teacher not seen. Call no man on earth Teacher. He is not a man as us. Jesus was taught by a Really, Truly Good Teacher. We can follow His Spirit that dwelt in Him who dwells in us

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The unseen father draws the new creature and adds them to the family. The Son of man does not draw .He leads by example . In the last days the veil is rent he spoke directly through the Son a living parable of one God working as two establishing the government of peace that surpasses our understanding . We have a shadow of it in these earthen bodies.

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. John 6:45

Not everyone that leans of me (seen the temporal ) comes to me. That would require no faith

If we do not learn of the Father not seen. Then we cannot come to the Son who was seen.

The law of faith is the power to believe that not seen. It as that not seen comes by first hearing the voice of another with power to move. Called a work of faith . .

Lazarus Rise. His responsibility give faith that can move to hear. . Brothers and sisters remove the grave clothing. Our responsibility to love one another in that manner. .

And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. John 6:43-44

John 1: 48 Nathanael said to him, "How do you know me?" Jesus answered him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you." 49 Nathanael answered him, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are King of Israel!" 50 Jesus answered him, "Because I told you, 'I saw you underneath the fig tree,' do you believe? You will see greater things than these!"

 

[Dan_473]

For example no salvation out side catholic.

No salvation apart from the church, which is the body of Christ. Most Protestants believe that as well!

 

[Dan_473]

said to call no man on earth teacher rather than walking by faith the unseen eternal voice of the father

Matthew 23: 8 But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. 9 Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.


Yet there are teachers in the church


1 Corinthians 12: 28 God has set some in the assembly: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracle workers, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, and various kinds of languages.


And we call Abraham father

Romans 4: 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.


Matthew 4: 23 Jesus went about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the Good News of the Kingdom, and healing every disease and every sickness among the people.


Someone who goes around teaching is a teacher.

 

[Dan_473]

Judaism is not consider simply as another religion?

What is that mean?

I think they mean the same kind of thing that Paul is talking about here

Romans 11: 16 If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree; 18 don't boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root,

but the root supports you.