Do prosperity gospel/Christian Science believers affect society with corona virus due to their belief system?

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UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#1
I learned today that my local Walmart will require individuals entering the building to have their temperature taken. I assume this will be through an infrared sensor.

I think it's a great idea, but I am wondering how prosperity gospel people are going to react to this, or any other isolation command.

Prosperity gospel people hold onto the concept of positive confession. If they are consistent with their theology, they will not acknowledge being sick. To acknowledge sickness is to bring upon themselves sickness, in their theology.

Their beliefs affect others, if they are infected with an illness such as corona virus, and pass it on to others. This could occur if they deny the fact that they have it.

If I'm not mistaken, Christian Science would claim something very similar.

I think the key is whether they are consistent with their belief system. My mother belonged to an organization that taught seeking medical assistance was, basically, idolatry, and that a faithful Christian would never do it. However, she allowed my father to take us to the doctor, unlike many members of the organization who let their kids do without medical care.

Maybe we will see a decline in the number of prosperity gospel churches simply due to their refusal to admit their sickness and seek treatment. But, I doubt it.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's an article on this topic:

Question: "Is there power in positive confession?"

Answer:
Positive confession is the practice of saying aloud what you want to happen with the expectation that God will make it a reality. It’s popular among prosperity gospel adherents who claim that words have spiritual power and that, if we speak aloud the right words with the right faith, we can gain riches and health, bind Satan, and accomplish anything we want. To confess positively is to speak words that we believe or want to believe, thus making them reality. This is opposed to negative confession, which is to acknowledge hardships, poverty, and illness and thus (supposedly) accept them and refuse the ease, wealth, and health God has planned for us.

There are several things wrong with this philosophy. The most dangerous is the belief that words have a kind of spiritual, magical power that we can use to get what we want. The practice borrows not from biblical truths, but from a new age concept called the "law of attraction." It teaches that "like attracts like"—a positive statement or thought will draw a positive reaction. Everything is imbued with God’s presence and power—not “God” as the omnipresent Creator, but “god” in a Hindu/pantheistic way. The net result is the idea that our words hold the power to force God to give us what we want—a heretical belief. Additionally, the results attributed to positive confession are powered by the faith of the individual. This leads to the old belief that illness and poverty are a type of punishment for sin (in this case, lack of faith). John 9:1-3 and the entire book of Job refute this soundly.

The second problem is that the prosperity gospel misinterprets the promises of God. “Confession” is agreeing with what God has said; "positive confession" is demanding human desires. People who push positive confession say that the practice is merely restating God’s promises as given in the Bible. But they don’t differentiate between universal promises God made to all His followers (e.g., Philippians 4:19) and personal promises made to individuals at a certain time for a particular purpose (e.g., Jeremiah 29:11). They also misinterpret the promises God does give us, refusing to accept that God’s plan for our lives may not match up with our own (Isaiah 55:9). A carefree, perfect life is the antithesis of what Jesus said the Christian life would look like—and the lives that His followers lived. Jesus didn’t promise prosperity; He promised hardship (Matthew 8:20). He didn’t promise that our every want would be fulfilled; He promised we’d have what we need (Philippians 4:19). He didn’t promise peace in a family; He promised that families would have problems as some chose to follow Him and some didn’t (Matthew 10:34-36). And He didn’t promise health; He promised to fulfill His plan for us and grace in the trials (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

Another issue with positive confession is that, although the "confessions" are understood to refer to things in the future, many of the statements are simply lies. Certainly, verbally affirming one’s faith in God and deliverance by the sacrifice of Jesus is good. But proclaiming, "I always obey God," or, "I am wealthy," is deceptive and possibly against the very will of the God we are to cling to. Especially disturbing are the "confessions" about other people. God has given each of us the freedom to serve Him or rebel against Him in our individual ways; claiming otherwise is foolish.

Finally, the Bible is very clear that "negative confession" does not negate God’s blessings. The Psalms are filled with cries to God for deliverance, and Psalm 55:22 and 1 Peter 5:7 exhort us follow that example. Even Jesus went before the Heavenly Father with a clear eye on the situation and a request for aid (Matthew 26:39). The God of the Bible is not a cosmic Santa Claus (James 4:1-3). He is a loving Father who wants to be involved in His children’s lives—the good and the bad. It is when we humble ourselves and ask for help that He gives us either release from the circumstances or strength to get through them.

Does positive confession have any value? In a way. Those who are confident they can solve a problem are generally more relaxed and creative. An optimistic mood has been shown to improve health. And happy people often have enough emotional distance between themselves and others to pick up on subtle clues which could lead to successful personal and business transactions. In addition, consistently voicing one’s goals keeps those goals on the forefront; those who constantly think about getting more money will act accordingly.

The dangers of positive confession far outweigh the benefits. All of the advantages we’ve listed are psychological and somewhat physiological—not spiritual. The only spiritual benefit to be had is the fact that people who expect God to move are more likely to see God’s hand in situations. But words are not magic. Our role with our Heavenly Father is not to demand, but to ask for help and to trust. And to realize that our blessings are not dependent on the strength of our faith, but on His plan and His power.

https://www.gotquestions.org/positive-confession.html
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#2
I think the churches who continue to meet are a threat to national security.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#3
As a cultist, I was told that evangelical Christians were stupid.

As a non-cultist, who fully embraces evangelical theology, I agree that SOME CHRISITANS are stupid.

Unfortunately, that makes it hard for the cultist to see that there are intelligent, non-cultists out there.

And, sects like prosperity gospel make it much harder to see this...unfortunately.

Again, thank God for my Reformed brethren who have shown me that there are reasonably-thinking, non-cultic believers.

And, I have less to be thankful for, in regards to prosperity gospel types...because they actually serve the cause of Satan in defaming the name of Christ.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,912
29,293
113
#4
Hello UnitedWithChrist :) So Walmart will take the temperature of people desiring to enter their stores, and this means what for prosperity gospel teachers/adherents? Because if their temperature is normal, it is business as usual. If their temperature is not normal, they are turned away and then what? Will they then be forced to do something against their will? Aside from shopping somewhere else?
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#5
No, I do believe however if the United States were actually still a Nation who wholeheartedly believed in God that we, for the most part, would be exempt to some degree of what is going to clearly happen. How can you blame specific beliefs, when our own "government" who claims to be a Nation under God, has allowed the Murder of Millions (Billions) of aborted babies, has allowed same sex to be equal to what God specified for a man and a woman, who has removed the Ten Commandments from public places, who ordered schools to both stop praying and to saying the Pledge of Allegiance, and who continues to Deny God in almost every facet of Authority?

Freedom of Speech is based upon censorship, the 2nd Amendment is based upon intolerable rules, and once we go to a "cashless society," Churches will no longer be tax exempt so the Government can control what is being given and what that is being spent on.

This virus is a Plague that kills, wrecks money markets, crashes economies, and has erased the sense of hope. This has nothing to do with "False Teachings," but more to do with a Nation who has turned its back on Almighty God!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,404
13,747
113
#6
Prosperity gospel people hold onto the concept of positive confession. If they are consistent with their theology, they will not acknowledge being sick. To acknowledge sickness is to bring upon themselves sickness, in their theology.

If I'm not mistaken, Christian Science would claim something very similar.
Fallacy: guilt by association.

You breathe, and atheists breathe, therefore you must be an atheist.

:rolleyes:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,912
29,293
113
#7
This virus is a Plague that kills, wrecks money markets, crashes economies, and has erased the sense of hope. This has nothing to do with "False Teachings," but more to do with a Nation who has turned its back on Almighty God!
Has not the whole world been affected, and not just one nation?

This may be entirely beside the point, but what comes to mind for me now is the bargaining process that happened between Abraham and God before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, when God acceded to Abraham's plea not to destroy Sodom if righteousness could be found there. “For the sake of ten (righteous people), I will not destroy it.” However, there are none righteous... no, not one, aside from Jesus Christ.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#8
I think the walmart thing isn't an issue because like mgenta stated if they have a tempature they will be turned away it's more of a matter of if they will be smart to understand the severity of this virus and take precautions. Regardless of their beliefs if they get the virus they can tell themselves they are not sick all they want but the fever is excruciating it will be more than obvious they are sick but it isn't just prosperity believers lots of people still aren't taking this virus seriously.

A lot of christians are still meeting at churches which is to put it simply completely irresponsible and even if they wash their hands constantly that still may not be enough. I am all for communion with other believers but as of right now it simply isn't safe. My sister and my moms boyfriend think this virus fear is bull they think everyone is being ridiculous like it's just a cold or the flu and granted while it works like the flu it is far worse than the flu.

They still go out all the time and go out of town and no matter how much I try to reason with them it falls on deaf ears. People like that are the threat not a certain sect of believers
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#9
Has not the whole world been affected, and not just one nation?

This may be entirely beside the point, but what comes to mind for me now is the bargaining process that happened between Abraham and God before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, when God acceded to Abraham's plea not to destroy Sodom if righteousness could be found there. “For the sake of ten (righteous people), I will not destroy it.” However, there are none righteous... no, not one, aside from Jesus Christ.


Obviously, many have died. From the list of names we automatically recognize like professional singers, song writers, movie directors, actors, actresses, etc etc, I have not read from people I know and who they know about many Believers dying from Covid-19. I am not claiming we are immune because it rains on both the just and unjust. But so far, it appears many who have died were non-Believers. And yes, there are certainly more non-Believers in this current world population than Believers. But the fact of the matter is rather conclusive. It clearly appears this is hitting more Non-Believers.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,230
1,126
113
New Zealand
#10
You know, here in New Zealand, during lockdown, the only places open are supermarkets, petrol stations, corner dairies and businesses supplying essential items to supermarkets. No hardware stores open, no mechanics open, no department stores, no clothing stores etc..

So i'm surprised Walmart is still open over there. The equivalent here.. The Warehouse.. is closed. Anyway, it is a bit of an issue here in how do you know whether you have Corona virus, and then if you do get it, to admit you have it would be hard.

I think pride can get in the way for anybody.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#11
I learned today that my local Walmart will require individuals entering the building to have their temperature taken. I assume this will be through an infrared sensor.

I think it's a great idea, but I am wondering how prosperity gospel people are going to react to this, or any other isolation command.

Prosperity gospel people hold onto the concept of positive confession. If they are consistent with their theology, they will not acknowledge being sick. To acknowledge sickness is to bring upon themselves sickness, in their theology.

Their beliefs affect others, if they are infected with an illness such as corona virus, and pass it on to others. This could occur if they deny the fact that they have it.

If I'm not mistaken, Christian Science would claim something very similar.

I think the key is whether they are consistent with their belief system. My mother belonged to an organization that taught seeking medical assistance was, basically, idolatry, and that a faithful Christian would never do it. However, she allowed my father to take us to the doctor, unlike many members of the organization who let their kids do without medical care.

Maybe we will see a decline in the number of prosperity gospel churches simply due to their refusal to admit their sickness and seek treatment. But, I doubt it.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's an article on this topic:

Question: "Is there power in positive confession?"

Answer: Positive confession is the practice of saying aloud what you want to happen with the expectation that God will make it a reality. It’s popular among prosperity gospel adherents who claim that words have spiritual power and that, if we speak aloud the right words with the right faith, we can gain riches and health, bind Satan, and accomplish anything we want. To confess positively is to speak words that we believe or want to believe, thus making them reality. This is opposed to negative confession, which is to acknowledge hardships, poverty, and illness and thus (supposedly) accept them and refuse the ease, wealth, and health God has planned for us.

There are several things wrong with this philosophy. The most dangerous is the belief that words have a kind of spiritual, magical power that we can use to get what we want. The practice borrows not from biblical truths, but from a new age concept called the "law of attraction." It teaches that "like attracts like"—a positive statement or thought will draw a positive reaction. Everything is imbued with God’s presence and power—not “God” as the omnipresent Creator, but “god” in a Hindu/pantheistic way. The net result is the idea that our words hold the power to force God to give us what we want—a heretical belief. Additionally, the results attributed to positive confession are powered by the faith of the individual. This leads to the old belief that illness and poverty are a type of punishment for sin (in this case, lack of faith). John 9:1-3 and the entire book of Job refute this soundly.

The second problem is that the prosperity gospel misinterprets the promises of God. “Confession” is agreeing with what God has said; "positive confession" is demanding human desires. People who push positive confession say that the practice is merely restating God’s promises as given in the Bible. But they don’t differentiate between universal promises God made to all His followers (e.g., Philippians 4:19) and personal promises made to individuals at a certain time for a particular purpose (e.g., Jeremiah 29:11). They also misinterpret the promises God does give us, refusing to accept that God’s plan for our lives may not match up with our own (Isaiah 55:9). A carefree, perfect life is the antithesis of what Jesus said the Christian life would look like—and the lives that His followers lived. Jesus didn’t promise prosperity; He promised hardship (Matthew 8:20). He didn’t promise that our every want would be fulfilled; He promised we’d have what we need (Philippians 4:19). He didn’t promise peace in a family; He promised that families would have problems as some chose to follow Him and some didn’t (Matthew 10:34-36). And He didn’t promise health; He promised to fulfill His plan for us and grace in the trials (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

Another issue with positive confession is that, although the "confessions" are understood to refer to things in the future, many of the statements are simply lies. Certainly, verbally affirming one’s faith in God and deliverance by the sacrifice of Jesus is good. But proclaiming, "I always obey God," or, "I am wealthy," is deceptive and possibly against the very will of the God we are to cling to. Especially disturbing are the "confessions" about other people. God has given each of us the freedom to serve Him or rebel against Him in our individual ways; claiming otherwise is foolish.

Finally, the Bible is very clear that "negative confession" does not negate God’s blessings. The Psalms are filled with cries to God for deliverance, and Psalm 55:22 and 1 Peter 5:7 exhort us follow that example. Even Jesus went before the Heavenly Father with a clear eye on the situation and a request for aid (Matthew 26:39). The God of the Bible is not a cosmic Santa Claus (James 4:1-3). He is a loving Father who wants to be involved in His children’s lives—the good and the bad. It is when we humble ourselves and ask for help that He gives us either release from the circumstances or strength to get through them.

Does positive confession have any value? In a way. Those who are confident they can solve a problem are generally more relaxed and creative. An optimistic mood has been shown to improve health. And happy people often have enough emotional distance between themselves and others to pick up on subtle clues which could lead to successful personal and business transactions. In addition, consistently voicing one’s goals keeps those goals on the forefront; those who constantly think about getting more money will act accordingly.

The dangers of positive confession far outweigh the benefits. All of the advantages we’ve listed are psychological and somewhat physiological—not spiritual. The only spiritual benefit to be had is the fact that people who expect God to move are more likely to see God’s hand in situations. But words are not magic. Our role with our Heavenly Father is not to demand, but to ask for help and to trust. And to realize that our blessings are not dependent on the strength of our faith, but on His plan and His power.

https://www.gotquestions.org/positive-confession.html
I think you should get your mind off prosperity gospel people and put your mind on JESUS. Alot of your threads constantly bag them. Perhaps you should spend that time learning about Jesus. What others believe is none of your business and telling them they are WRONG is not going to change their minds.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#13
I think you should get your mind off prosperity gospel people and put your mind on JESUS. Alot of your threads constantly bag them. Perhaps you should spend that time learning about Jesus. What others believe is none of your business and telling them they are WRONG is not going to change their minds.
Well, let me ask you..are you charismatic/Pentecostal/Word of Faith?

Do you belong to a solid, bible-teaching church, or some liberal mushy church?

I could see either being offended by my words.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#14
Well, let me ask you..are you charismatic/Pentecostal/Word of Faith?

Do you belong to a solid, bible-teaching church, or some liberal mushy church?

I could see either being offended by my words.
I am a child of God and who he says I am in Christ. I did not intend to sound blunt but I just think you spend so much time and energy disproving a certain group. Time may be short why not spend it telling others of Jesus.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#15
I am a child of God and who he says I am in Christ. I did not intend to sound blunt but I just think you spend so much time and energy disproving a certain group. Time may be short why not spend it telling others of Jesus.
Perhaps I do both.

In the last 3 years I have spoken to over 300 people about Christ. I was in jail ministry up until the last six months or so. I was driven out by Pentecostals, charismatics and Word of Faith people. They did not make it easy because they don't want their teachings challenged. They want seekers to view them as the Christian equivalent of the witch doctor who can solve all their problems by casting out their demons and removing their generational curses.

Anyways you may also find I am not entertained by women trying to correct me, especially if they are younger than me. That may work in the female-dominated charismatic world, but not with me.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#16
Perhaps I do both.

In the last 3 years I have spoken to over 300 people about Christ. I was in jail ministry up until the last six months or so. I was driven out by Pentecostals, charismatics and Word of Faith people. They did not make it easy because they don't want their teachings challenged. They want seekers to view them as the Christian equivalent of the witch doctor who can solve all their problems by casting out their demons and removing their generational curses.
Cool, that would have been a challenging ministry.
Why would they have wanted to drive you out of your ministry. What exactly did they not like about what you preached?
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#17
Cool, that would have been a challenging ministry.
Why would they have wanted to drive you out of your ministry. What exactly did they not like about what you preached?
KJV Only guys didn't like it because I gave away ESV Bibles. In fact, I donated a lot of them to the library and guards were not allowed
to give them to prisoners.

Prophecy nuts didn't like it because I challenged their views.

Free-willers didn't like it because I believe God is sovereign in salvation.

Charismatics didn't like it because I disagreed with their teachings about generational curses, God talking to them audibly, weird dreams and prophecies, etcetera.

I didn't go seeking to correct them, but prisoners would ask me what I thought about some point of teaching coming from them, and I would answer plainly.

Ultimately, though, I quit because of an issue with Christian books related to the corrections officers. However, I believe behind the scenes the charismatic chaplain was restricting my activity due to doctrinal disagreements.

Which is fine with me..I'm not going to teach charismatic stuff or fail to give prisoners proper answers.

I didn't have much respect for the chaplain anyways..he ran a business on the side that involved driving people long distances. One lady asked if she could work for him, and he told her that she would have to be ok with falsifying reports when she drove more than a certain distance per day, as it was required sometimes to get people to their destinations without an overnight stay. I don't know about him, but as a Christian I consider lying to be immoral, and to ask others to do it is immoral, too.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#18
KJV Only guys didn't like it because I gave away ESV Bibles. In fact, I donated a lot of them to the library and guards were not allowed
to give them to prisoners.

Prophecy nuts didn't like it because I challenged their views.

Free-willers didn't like it because I believe God is sovereign in salvation.

Charismatics didn't like it because I disagreed with their teachings about generational curses, God talking to them audibly, weird dreams and prophecies, etcetera.

I didn't go seeking to correct them, but prisoners would ask me what I thought about some point of teaching coming from them, and I would answer plainly.

Ultimately, though, I quit because of an issue with Christian books related to the corrections officers. However, I believe behind the scenes the charismatic chaplain was restricting my activity due to doctrinal disagreements.

Which is fine with me..I'm not going to teach charismatic stuff or fail to give prisoners proper answers.

I didn't have much respect for the chaplain anyways..he ran a business on the side that involved driving people long distances. One lady asked if she could work for him, and he told her that she would have to be ok with falsifying reports when she drove more than a certain distance per day, as it was required sometimes to get people to their destinations without an overnight stay. I don't know about him, but as a Christian I consider lying to be immoral, and to ask others to do it is immoral, too.
Well that is a shame, people are always going to be disappointing. What do you think God wants you to do now that you are no longer in prison ministry?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#19
I think the churches who continue to meet are a threat to national security.
I believe they shouldn't meet, but national security threat? How so?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#20
You know, here in New Zealand, during lockdown, the only places open are supermarkets, petrol stations, corner dairies and businesses supplying essential items to supermarkets. No hardware stores open, no mechanics open, no department stores, no clothing stores etc..

So i'm surprised Walmart is still open over there. The equivalent here.. The Warehouse.. is closed. Anyway, it is a bit of an issue here in how do you know whether you have Corona virus, and then if you do get it, to admit you have it would be hard.

I think pride can get in the way for anybody.

In a lot of towns here Walmart is the only place that sells groceries,or needed drugs.