Do you still sin?

[MegMarch]

Born again believing Christians still sin. 1 John 1:8, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

If we still sin, we are sinners. There is no need to fixate on that term because an effectual sacrifice has already been made for our sins. We are a dichotomy of opposing parts being purified and sanctified over time.

 

[NOV25]

Oh, @NOV25, uh-oh! You're stumbling.......

There's no need to bring up "denominations" - these simply divide believers. WE are all one IN CHRIST.



1 Corinthians 3:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

I’m guessing Pentecostal.

 

[Lafftur]

Since you avoided answering my last post to you I will ask my question again?

I'm so sorry I was not able to answer your last post #129 in a more timely manner, bluto. Please forgive me, it takes a lot of time to respond to everyone..... but, you'll notice that I did respond today.

Define "stumbling" or "falling down?" Please give me an example of what you mean?

An example in scripture is whenever Paul reprimanded believers for being "carnal." That's when we stumble over our flesh because we're not walking by the Spirit. When we're little babes in Christ learning how to walk.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

And your right, the Blood of Jesus Christ on that cross took away ALL our sins, past, present and future, this is a given.

And since this is true why does John say at 1 John 1:9-10 say, "If we confes our sins, (Why does John tell us to confess our sins is as believers we don't sin according to you?)

Remember John is writing to believers otherwise why does John say at 1 John 2:1, "My little children?" And getting back to vs10 of chapter 1, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Exactly! It's confusing...... how can I be saved and STILL have sin?! This question is what puzzles MANY believers. I also think this is why people don't believe they are Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) because they STILL struggle with "sin in their flesh" - it becomes so easy to doubt our salvation and fall away from the Truth of who we are IN CHRIST.

I am absolutely certain that I am saved, but I was trying to make sense out of "my flesh" that I seem to STILL have to contend with - just like Paul was confused about it. I knew the penalty of sin is Death, yet, I also knew I was NOT condemned IN CHRIST. So, I came to the conclusion that I cannot sin anymore because I have received Eternal Life IN CHRIST. So, I must just be learning how to walk by the Spirit because it's the ONLY WAY to NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

However, after reading....

1 John 5:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


it became clear that THERE IS A SIN NOT UNTO DEATH! Well, Praise God!!! Now, it makes sense.

Now, I understand, like Paul - sin is STILL in my flesh, but it is sin that is NOT unto Death. I am to learn to walk by the Spirit so I do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

We're SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED!! Hallelujah!! We're God's children learning how to walk.

The "BIG" problem your having is you do not know how to reconcile what I just said with 1 John 3:8-10. In short, you have tunnel vision and your not willing to face the Biblical fact that as believers we still commit sin. Reconcile, reconcile, reconcile Lafftur.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

My tunnel vision was that I thought ALL SIN was unto Death, but now I know that is not true because there is a SIN that is NOT unto Death. This is the ONLY type of sin that true born again believers deal with and must overcome and WE CAN by learning how to walk by the Spirit!!! Praise God!!!

Thank You, Father for the Gift of Your Holy Spirit that empowers us to walk in a way that is pleasing in Your sight!!

Much love to you, bluto!

 

[CharliRenee]

Regardless for which side we stand on here, we can all agree and be thankful for this...

He is always working in us, Praise His Holy Name!!! We are all so blessed with Him!!!!!

 

[CharliRenee]

I'm so sorry I was not able to answer your last post #129 in a more timely manner, bluto. Please forgive me, it takes a lot of time to respond to everyone..... but, you'll notice that I did respond today.



An example in scripture is whenever Paul reprimanded believers for being "carnal." That's when we stumble over our flesh because we're not walking by the Spirit. When we're little babes in Christ learning how to walk.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?



Exactly! It's confusing...... how can I be saved and STILL have sin?! This question is what puzzles MANY believers. I also think this is why people don't believe they are Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) because they STILL struggle with "sin in their flesh" - it becomes so easy to doubt our salvation and fall away from the Truth of who we are IN CHRIST.

I am absolutely certain that I am saved, but I was trying to make sense out of "my flesh" that I seem to STILL have to contend with - just like Paul was confused about it. I knew the penalty of sin is Death, yet, I also knew I was NOT condemned IN CHRIST. So, I came to the conclusion that I cannot sin anymore because I have received Eternal Life IN CHRIST. So, I must just be learning how to walk by the Spirit because it's the ONLY WAY to NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

However, after reading....

1 John 5:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


it became clear that THERE IS A SIN NOT UNTO DEATH! Well, Praise God!!! Now, it makes sense.

Now, I understand, like Paul - sin is STILL in my flesh, but it is sin that is NOT unto Death. I am to learn to walk by the Spirit so I do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

We're SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED!! Hallelujah!! We're God's children learning how to walk.



My tunnel vision was that I thought ALL SIN was unto Death, but now I know that is not true because there is a SIN that is NOT unto Death. This is the ONLY type of sin that true born again believers deal with and must overcome and WE CAN by learning how to walk by the Spirit!!! Praise God!!!

Thank You, Father for the Gift of Your Holy Spirit that empowers us to walk in a way that is pleasing in Your sight!!

Much love to you, bluto!

Sorry to go into another direction but but but....

The sin unto death still eludes me. Blasphemy maybe?

 

[NOV25]

I'm so sorry I was not able to answer your last post #129 in a more timely manner, bluto. Please forgive me, it takes a lot of time to respond to everyone..... but, you'll notice that I did respond today.



An example in scripture is whenever Paul reprimanded believers for being "carnal." That's when we stumble over our flesh because we're not walking by the Spirit. When we're little babes in Christ learning how to walk.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?



Exactly! It's confusing...... how can I be saved and STILL have sin?! This question is what puzzles MANY believers. I also think this is why people don't believe they are Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) because they STILL struggle with "sin in their flesh" - it becomes so easy to doubt our salvation and fall away from the Truth of who we are IN CHRIST.

I am absolutely certain that I am saved, but I was trying to make sense out of "my flesh" that I seem to STILL have to contend with - just like Paul was confused about it. I knew the penalty of sin is Death, yet, I also knew I was NOT condemned IN CHRIST. So, I came to the conclusion that I cannot sin anymore because I have received Eternal Life IN CHRIST. So, I must just be learning how to walk by the Spirit because it's the ONLY WAY to NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

However, after reading....

1 John 5:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


it became clear that THERE IS A SIN NOT UNTO DEATH! Well, Praise God!!! Now, it makes sense.

Now, I understand, like Paul - sin is STILL in my flesh, but it is sin that is NOT unto Death. I am to learn to walk by the Spirit so I do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

We're SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED!! Hallelujah!! We're God's children learning how to walk.



My tunnel vision was that I thought ALL SIN was unto Death, but now I know that is not true because there is a SIN that is NOT unto Death. This is the ONLY type of sin that true born again believers deal with and must overcome and WE CAN by learning how to walk by the Spirit!!! Praise God!!!

Thank You, Father for the Gift of Your Holy Spirit that empowers us to walk in a way that is pleasing in Your sight!!

Much love to you, bluto!

Did you just come to this new conclusion in the last few days? The reason I ask is you clearly state in previous posts that you never sin, but now you seem to be saying that you do sin but not the deadly kind 🤦‍♂️

You should look into the history of perfectionism.

 

[biker]

I tend to look at the "Lord's Prayer" He taught us.
He specifically claims immediately, "if we do not forgive others," the Father "will not" forgive us.
I wonder how many never forgive the things that are done unjustly to them by other people? And if they choose to deny those people forgiveness, are we making Jesus a liar by His claim the Father "will not" forgive us? If this is true, and some are still unforgiven by refusal of forgiving, how are they without sin?

 

[CharliRenee]

She can speak for herself but isn't she just reminding us to walk in the spirit, that when our flesh stumbles, get back up and walk with Him.

I believe He wants us to follow His lead. I don't think she thinks she is or will ever be perfect, that kind of pride is frowned upon. However, leaning on the Holy One who is, helps equip and empower us to take captive our thoughts and actions not pleasing to Him, for His Glory and purposes as well as for the good of our own well-being and others we ourselves are in contact with online and off.


Humility is such a blessing, just as trusting and learning on Him.

May we all continue to have repentant hearts and mercy for others, as those are also part of His calling, eh? He knows we will always need His mercy. Let's pay Him forward.

God Bless you all.

 

[Lafftur]

Just FYI - I'm on post #160..... making progress! lol!

I am so enjoying all of you!!!

 

[CharliRenee]

Anyone know of a thread that might give good biblical response to what the sin unto death is? Unbelief, blasphemy?

 

[Lafftur]

@Ahwatukee - thank you for spending so much time trying to help me understand. I appreciate you posting this! It's very helpful. (This is Part 1 of 2)

Hello again, Lafftur!

The following is from "Gotquestions" which conveys what I have been trying to get you to understand. I hope this will shed some light on the subject as to whether those in Christ still commit sin. Please read all of it, including the last paragraph.

Question: "Do Christians sin?"

Answer: Before exploring whether or not Christians sin, let’s define a couple of terms. Regardless of how tattered the word Christian has become throughout history, the biblical definition of a “Christian” is one who is a Christ-follower, a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). A Christian is NOT someone who has ascribed to a particular set of religious beliefs or practices, joined a church, prayed a prayer, or participated in certain sacraments or rituals. A Christian is a person who has responded to the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44) by putting his or her whole faith in the finished work of Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8–9; John 3:15–18). Christians are those who have repented of their sin and have made Jesus Lord of their lives (Romans 10:9–10; Acts 2:38). They are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:6–7).

Excellent description of a "Christian." I agree.

“Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

I disagree with "any thought" being considered sin because not ALL thoughts are ours. Some thoughts are Satan, devils, demons trying to tempt us to sin.

2 Corinthians 10:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

We'd have to come into agreement with a wrong thought and meditate on it as if we are doing it - then that thought becomes sin - just as the writer stated.

When we come to Christ by faith and trust Him to forgive and cleanse us of all our sin, we are in that moment born again (John 3:3). That new birth of the spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). God gives the repentant sinner a new heart that is now turned toward obeying and pleasing Him rather than self (2 Corinthians 5:9; Romans 8:5–6). Whereas we were formerly slaves to sin, we are now “slaves to righteousness” (Romans 6:16). Sin’s control has been broken by the power of Jesus (Romans 6:6; Titus 2:14).

Yes, I agree because BEFORE we were saved by faith in Christ, we were sinners in bondage and held captive by Satan which is the god of this world.

AFTER we are saved, Satan can no longer keep us in bondage and hold us captive to sin which has penalty of Death. We are no longer under this type of sin that has a penalty of Death.

However, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.” Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17).

Yes, yes, yes! This is what I am talking about - being FILLED with the Holy Spirit! It's the ONLY WAY to NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh. We can take up our cross, deny ourselves (our flesh) and follow Yeshua/Jesus Christ with the power of the Holy Spirit - we can!!!

The book of 1 John was written to Christians. The apostle says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). It is clear from this passage that even those who have been born again and redeemed by the blood of Jesus will still sin. Through thought, attitude, or action, we will “grieve” (Ephesians 4:30) and “quench” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) the Holy Spirit at times. But this passage also reassures us that God offers continual, ongoing grace whenever we agree with Him about our sin and ask for His cleansing.

Yes, I agree. (This is very good!)

 

[Lafftur]

This is Part 2 of 2

However, other passages clarify the boundaries of this ocean of grace. First John 3:6 says, “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.” Verse 9 says that those who have been “born of God” will not continue to live sinfully. The implication is that this is not a matter of trying harder. Rather, it is the equivalent of saying, “A fish cannot remain on land for long because its nature is to seek water.” A fish could flop onto the shore and survive for a short time. But it was not made for land and cannot continue there. When we are born again, our natures change, and we cannot continue in sin. Christ not only erases our past sin; He also transforms our hearts so that we no longer desire it (Colossians 2:13–14).

Colossians 2:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul asked, “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2).

Yes, I agree.

Although Christians will still sin after being saved, the heart change that the Holy Spirit brings will result in a new attitude toward sin. Sin cannot continue being a lifestyle choice if we have surrendered our lives to Jesus. That’s what it means to say that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9; Colossians 2:6). We have a new boss. We cannot be followers of Christ and followers of sin at the same time. They are going in opposite directions (Luke 9:23; 14:33). Romans 12:2 instructs, “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Renewal can take some time, but it is a process that produces a change of behavior.

Yes, I agree. However, I believe the Holy Spirit does MORE than just a heart change with a new attitude toward sin - the Holy Spirit is the power of God in us to live this new life without fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

Also, this renewing of our mind spoken of in Romans 12 is part of the restoring of our souls (mind, will and emotions) - it's not just the mind - it's the renewing of our will and emotions, too. By this I mean, with the Word of God and the Holy Spirit of God our minds are renewed to process information through the filter of the knowledge of God and our emotions are renewed by the Holy Spirit teaching us to love what God loves, hate what God hates, be sad with what God is sad with, be angry by what makes God angry and sin not. Lastly, our will gets renewed by us choosing God's Will and not ours - eventually, we delight in God's Will because we know it's best, even if it means we suffer for righteousness sake.

When a true child of God goes astray, our Father administers discipline to bring him back into obedience. Hebrews 12:7–8 says, “It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.” If a professing Christian can choose a lifestyle of sin without experiencing enough discipline to bring him to repentance, then according to this Scripture, it is highly unlikely that that person is a child of God.

Yes, this is true. God-our Father will chastise us as dear children because He loves us, amen.

Do Christians sin? Yes. Do they willfully continue in sin? No. Scripture indicates that, while we will always (at times) “fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we have the hope that the power of God is at work in us to “make us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NLT).

I do agree, except for the world "always" - I would replace it with "at times" because when we walk by the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

I do believe God in His infinite wisdom deliberately saved us and made us a new creation IN CHRIST Jesus; however, on purpose left us to contend with our "flesh." It has to be for our good, or else He would not have done it.

Ever notice it's like we're back in the Garden of Eden and we're pure in God's sight - just like Adam and Eve, yet God had to give us a choice..........it seems He NEVER takes the "choice" away.......

I know God loves us and greatly desires us to love Him and I know that LOVE without a choice is not love. For us to truly love God, we have to choose to love God.

I really don't see any other purpose (yet) in why God left us to contend with our flesh.......

Ahwatukee, thank you again for sharing this insight with me! I really enjoyed reading it and took all of it to heart! I count you as my brother, IN CHRIST!

 

[Lafftur]

Thanks for that I vote Lafftur. You and one other dear lady here are a beautiful example of what it means to truly have Christ inside.
Blessings to you.

You are loved @Brandnewday! We got to learn to love God, love others and love ourselves - not to be too critical of God, others or ourselves.

God is perfect in love, the rest of us are learning......

 

[Lafftur]

I'm on post #167. Thank y'all for being patient with me!

 

[biker]

Anyone know of a thread that might give good biblical response to what the sin unto death is? Unbelief, blasphemy?

Just making a guess here. Are you thinking about Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Jesus said, anyone who does as such is in peril because it is the unforgiveable sin.

 

[CharliRenee]

Just making a guess here. Are you thinking about Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Jesus said, anyone who does as such is in peril because it is the unforgiveable sin.

Well, I am just trying to figure out the sin unto death verses sin not unto death we see in the verse. I am guessing it is referencing blasephemy. Some believe Blasphemy is unbelief, but I think it is more. Again, do not know for sure...

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.
1 John 5:16 NASB


I do not know.

 

[biker]

Well, I am just trying to figure out the sin unto death verses sin not unto death we see in the verse. I am guessing it is referencing blasephemy. Some believe Blasphemy is unbelief, but I think it is more. Again, do not know for sure...

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.
1 John 5:16 NASB


I do not know.

You are indeed well aware of something I was unaware of. You have allowed me to learn and I am both grateful and thankful for. I did a search for it since my search engine is different than most and this is what popped up:

• The sin that leads to death can be seen from the context of John 5 and it is the sin of continuous commission and omission ( a reality that does not exists in a real believer) which is a sin that one cannot be prayed for and the sin that does not lead to death is the sin that believers can be prayed for and be forgiven.

What is “sin that leads to death” in 1 ... - Stack Exchange
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/359/what-is-sin-that-leads-to-death-in-1-john-516

 

[Deuteronomy]

Well, I am just trying to figure out the sin unto death verses sin not unto death we see in the verse. I am guessing it is referencing blasephemy. Some believe Blasphemy is unbelief, but I think it is more. Again, do not know for sure...

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.
1 John 5:16 NASB

I do not know.

Hello Sister, this discussion would make for a good thread, I would think (and perhaps a poll too)

I've been taught (for instance) that "a sin leading to death" has nothing to do with the very specific sin known as the "blasphemy of the HS" (which is unpardonable ~both~ on this side of grave, as well in the age to come). Rather, that the "death" being spoken of here involves a sinning believer's death (which makes sense in context), that it is a sin that leads to the temporal/physical .. NOT .. the eternal/spiritual death of a believer.

It's not unpardonable, but it is a sin (like the sin that Ananias and Sapphira committed .. Acts 5:1-11) where a believer's witness has become so totally compromised that he/she has become, at best, useless as a Christian, so God takes the sinning believer home (for the good of the believing community and/or the unbelieving world, as well for the sinning believer's good).

That said, there are many, like our RC friends, who teach that 1 John 5:16 'is' talking about the unpardonable sin (so again, it should make for a good discussion).

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello again @CharliRenee, here is a bit of commentary that I just found from Dr. John MacArthur on 1 John 5:16-17. He is basically saying the same thing I just did (he just has a much better way of putting it than I did ).

5:16, 17 John illustrates praying according to God’s will with the specific example of the “sin leading to death.” Such a sin could be any premeditated and unconfessed sin that causes the Lord to determine to end a believer’s life. It is not one particular sin like homosexuality or lying, but whatever sin is the final one in the tolerance of God. Failure to repent of and forsake sin may eventually lead to physical death as a judgment of God (Acts 5:1–11; 1 Cor. 5:5; 11:30). No intercessory prayer will be effective for those who have committed such deliberate high-handed sin, i.e., God’s discipline with physical death is inevitable in such cases as He seeks to preserve the purity of His church. The contrast to the phrase “there is sin leading to death” with “there is sin not leading to death” signifies that the writer distinguishes between sins that may lead to physical death and those that do not. That is not to identify a certain kind of mortal or non-mortal sin, but to say not all sins are so judged by God. ~MacArthur, J Jr, NT Commentary, 1, 2, 3 John​

~Deut

 

[CharliRenee]

Hello Sister, this discussion would make for a good thread, I would think (and perhaps a poll too)

I've been taught (for instance) that "a sin leading to death" has nothing to do with the very specific sin known as the "blasphemy of the HS" (which is unpardonable ~both~ on this side of grave, as well in the age to come). Rather, that the "death" being spoken of here involves a sinning believer's death (which makes sense in context), that it is a sin that leads to the temporal/physical .. NOT .. the eternal/spiritual death of a believer.

It's not unpardonable, but it is a sin (like the sin that Ananias and Sapphira committed .. Acts 5:1-11) where a believer's witness has become so totally compromised that he/she has become, at best, useless as a Christian, so God takes the sinning believer home (for the good of the believing community and/or the unbelieving world, as well for the sinning believer's good).

That said, there are many, like our RC friends, who teach that 1 John 5:16 'is' talking about the unpardonable sin (so again, it should make for a good discussion).

God bless you!

~Deut

Hello brother, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts....

I never looked at it as not leading to (physical) death. Hmmmm, yes very interesting. I can see that as plausible when considering the acts account. I try not to speculate when he doesn't say specifically but since it is an instruction, I do yearn to know. So thanks for this gives me something to consider and pray about.