When and what does Satan falling from heaven represent? What does fallen represent?
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I would suggest he fell when the time of reformation came. The veil was rent .The last days began . After the reformation, a time of great trouble never before or ever again. Prior Satan deceived the whole world that he was the God of the Jew alone .
Glorying in the corrupted flesh of mankind . The curtain was torn and revealed his nakedness . No fleshly face that mankind could look to .Therefore after that manner (the flesh ) he could not deceive the nations. Some think there will be a time period when there will be no sin under the Sun
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3
Never again could he deceive the whole world in respect to Jewish flesh
Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Jesus said that He gave those that follow Him power to tread on serpent and scorpions, and over all power of the enemy, which the 70 returned and told Jesus they had power over the devils.
God kicked Satan and the fallen angels out of the 3rd heaven for they rebelled against God, and they had no power against God to overthrow Him and rule.
So Jesus saying He beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven could mean that Jesus is saying that the same power that cast Satan out of heaven which is from God is the same power you have over the devils by the power of God to cast them out of people, and to have power over them where they cannot affect you.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Jesus said that He gave those that follow Him power to tread on serpent and scorpions, and over all power of the enemy, which the 70 returned and told Jesus they had power over the devils.
God kicked Satan and the fallen angels out of the 3rd heaven for they rebelled against God, and they had no power against God to overthrow Him and rule.
So Jesus saying He beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven could mean that Jesus is saying that the same power that cast Satan out of heaven which is from God is the same power you have over the devils by the power of God to cast them out of people, and to have power over them where they cannot affect you.
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Thanks for that .Good stuff. But I do not think it answers my question.
Why would falling from heaven represent the gospel. . . good news to the whole world ? What would falling represent and I added in represent of deceiving the nations. Again what took away the effect of deceiving the nations?
We know as long as men live under the sun they are liars. The father of lies is free to deceive in that way until the last day when the letter of the law death is cast away never to rise and condemn thorough corruption a entire creation. .
What does deceive the nations no more have to do with the gospel ? What changed? And how would that affect the end time timing?
Luke 10 :18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
What about deceiving the nations (the whole world) changed?
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3
Why would falling from heaven represent the gospel. . . good news to the whole world ? What would falling represent and I added in represent of deceiving the nations. Again what took away the effect of deceiving the nations?
We know as long as men live under the sun they are liars. The father of lies is free to deceive in that way until the last day when the letter of the law death is cast away never to rise and condemn thorough corruption a entire creation. .
What does deceive the nations no more have to do with the gospel ? What changed? And how would that affect the end time timing?
Luke 10 :18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
What about deceiving the nations (the whole world) changed?
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3
“The seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name! And He said to them, I saw Satan falling like a lightning [flash] from heaven. Behold! I have given you authority and power to trample upon serpents and scorpions, and [physical and mental strength and ability] over all the power that the enemy [possesses]; and nothing shall in any way harm you.” Luke 10:17–19 (AMP)
Well there are different ways to interpret the verse in question and it's meaning but we have to consider the scripture before and adter it what is being spoken about? In my opinion it is a prophecy bible prophecy often foreshadows often times happening more than once as a foreshadow of the real thing. We read of Jesus giving his power and authroirty to 72 followers and sending them all over the place and are protected no harm comes to them but also notice that the way he is describing everything from luke 10 all the way to luke 18 it doesn't sound like something you would describe at that time because he seems to be speaking about these things in future tense as if even though he sent them all out and spoke of these things it was merely an example of something.
But he doesn't describe satan falling from heaven like lightning until we get to luke 10:18 so lets say that he isn't speaking of satan from when he was in heaven but when he is on earth as the antichrist and lets say him falling from heaven isn't speaking literally but rather meaning falling from a placemeant of height like say how the antichrist will rule the world for a time and lets also say that falling like lighting is meaning like a flash or very fast and hard.
Now it is believed that the world will not simply be left alone in the great tribulation that God will send his warriors to do his will even in that time having his power and authority not seen since that day on pentacost as to whether this is actually true I do not know but I sure hope it is, The 72 he sent out could be a representation of this for instance. But what does it have to do with the gospel and the enemy deceiving the world no more?
the word is (Everything). If satan falls for the final time he will be defeated for good otherwise he could continue to deceive the world as he does.
But this is just for consideration and is only what I got from it so take it with a grain of salt as I know how the ordeal of scripture interpretation is but for me that is also why I love it because no matter how much you grow and learn you can read evcen just one verse a thousand times and yet still gain understanding you didn't have before
But he doesn't describe satan falling from heaven like lightning until we get to luke 10:18 so lets say that he isn't speaking of satan from when he was in heaven but when he is on earth as the antichrist and lets say him falling from heaven isn't speaking literally but rather meaning falling from a placemeant of height like say how the antichrist will rule the world for a time and lets also say that falling like lighting is meaning like a flash or very fast and hard.
Now it is believed that the world will not simply be left alone in the great tribulation that God will send his warriors to do his will even in that time having his power and authority not seen since that day on pentacost as to whether this is actually true I do not know but I sure hope it is, The 72 he sent out could be a representation of this for instance. But what does it have to do with the gospel and the enemy deceiving the world no more?
the word is (Everything). If satan falls for the final time he will be defeated for good otherwise he could continue to deceive the world as he does.
But this is just for consideration and is only what I got from it so take it with a grain of salt as I know how the ordeal of scripture interpretation is but for me that is also why I love it because no matter how much you grow and learn you can read evcen just one verse a thousand times and yet still gain understanding you didn't have before
Satan had already fallen by the time he got to the Garden of Eden: Ezekiel 28:12-16 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."
This Lucifer, turned evil, can be none other than Satan. God was, and still is, casting Satan out of His government. The earth became desolate through gross mismanagement. God had obviously given Satan charge over all the earth, but the devil's rebellious ways brought about a major catastrophe that made an absolute mess of the planet.
God then re-created the world and removed Satan from his rulership and placed man in his stead. “And God blessed them [mankind], and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: And have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth” (Genesis 1:28).
The devil still rules the world system, but he now does it in an indirect way——by influencing man. God had given us the history of the world, as recorded in Genesis, only from the time that man entered into the picture. What had taken place on the earth, before this time, is not fully revealed nor relevant to what God is doing with mankind.
This Lucifer, turned evil, can be none other than Satan. God was, and still is, casting Satan out of His government. The earth became desolate through gross mismanagement. God had obviously given Satan charge over all the earth, but the devil's rebellious ways brought about a major catastrophe that made an absolute mess of the planet.
God then re-created the world and removed Satan from his rulership and placed man in his stead. “And God blessed them [mankind], and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: And have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth” (Genesis 1:28).
The devil still rules the world system, but he now does it in an indirect way——by influencing man. God had given us the history of the world, as recorded in Genesis, only from the time that man entered into the picture. What had taken place on the earth, before this time, is not fully revealed nor relevant to what God is doing with mankind.
He does provide different levels of understanding .The historical and unseen spiritual come along side each other and reveal the gospel hid from natural unconverted mankind.
I was thinking the timing in regard the in the parable Revelation 20 . , "that he should deceive the nations no more"
We know it does not mean he would not deceive mankind for a period of time .Satan will be deceiving mankind as long as it remains under the Sun and men dwell in bodies of death (flesh and blood)
The should deceive the nations no more is that moment of time or like it say like lightning a flash . It was announced when Jesus said it is finished. The reformation had come .The Jews lost their false identity as gods people according to the flesh. Satan lost his opportunist to deceive all the nation. that God was the God of one nation as to how he deceived the nations.
It must of had to do with the reformation. Up until that time the nations of the world were under the illusion that our savoir had something to do with Jewish flesh as if salvation was after any flesh. They were simply used as shadows to represent mankind, both converted and not converted .Just as he used foods and animals in ceremonies. Clean to represent the redeemed, unclean to represent natural man .
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30 (KJV)
The he saw him fall and cast set a seal that he could not deceive all the nations .That the Creator is only the God of the corrupted hews and not the God of the whole of mankind. Again it was never about the corrupted flesh of mankind to begin with. Satan got a surprise that he will never forget. . No face to put on put him in a identity crisis .Took away all possibly outward identity to deceive all the nations
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.Luke 10:18
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20: 3
I was thinking the timing in regard the in the parable Revelation 20 . , "that he should deceive the nations no more"
We know it does not mean he would not deceive mankind for a period of time .Satan will be deceiving mankind as long as it remains under the Sun and men dwell in bodies of death (flesh and blood)
The should deceive the nations no more is that moment of time or like it say like lightning a flash . It was announced when Jesus said it is finished. The reformation had come .The Jews lost their false identity as gods people according to the flesh. Satan lost his opportunist to deceive all the nation. that God was the God of one nation as to how he deceived the nations.
It must of had to do with the reformation. Up until that time the nations of the world were under the illusion that our savoir had something to do with Jewish flesh as if salvation was after any flesh. They were simply used as shadows to represent mankind, both converted and not converted .Just as he used foods and animals in ceremonies. Clean to represent the redeemed, unclean to represent natural man .
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30 (KJV)
The he saw him fall and cast set a seal that he could not deceive all the nations .That the Creator is only the God of the corrupted hews and not the God of the whole of mankind. Again it was never about the corrupted flesh of mankind to begin with. Satan got a surprise that he will never forget. . No face to put on put him in a identity crisis .Took away all possibly outward identity to deceive all the nations
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.Luke 10:18
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20: 3
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I would agree with that but don't think it is when Satan was not deceiving the nations. That God was the father of all nations. And puts absolutely no difference between as Jew and a Gentile .Purifying the hearts of all men by a work of His faith in us.
The reformation came . A great tribulation for the Jew one like never before or ever again. A great jubilation for the whole world
The reformation came . A great tribulation for the Jew one like never before or ever again. A great jubilation for the whole world
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That's when satan finally loses access to heaven.. This happens after Micheal and His Angels defeat satan and his Angels in a battle that happens in heaven.. This is detailed in the Book of Revelation..
Scripture with context::
Revelation 12: KJV
7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, {8} And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. {9} And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. {10} And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. {11} And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. {12} Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
Because if the Last verse i believe this will happen close to the time of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ.. This will be the time of the great tribulation as satan does his worse upon the earth and humanity because he will know his time is short..
Scripture with context::
Revelation 12: KJV
7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, {8} And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. {9} And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. {10} And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. {11} And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. {12} Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
Because if the Last verse i believe this will happen close to the time of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ.. This will be the time of the great tribulation as satan does his worse upon the earth and humanity because he will know his time is short..
Revelation 20:4 speaks of Satan being bound and not deceiving the nations during the millennial reign. Most all nations know nothing of God's plans whether they call themselves Christian or not. He is deceiving them right now!
Revelation 12 is a general picture of an event, the fall of Satan and his third, that happened way before Eden. It is ludicrous to suggest Satan has access to heaven. God ask where Satan had been dwelling in Job 1 and he said "to and fro in the earth." This is where he and his third are imprisoned.
Revelation 12 is a general picture of an event, the fall of Satan and his third, that happened way before Eden. It is ludicrous to suggest Satan has access to heaven. God ask where Satan had been dwelling in Job 1 and he said "to and fro in the earth." This is where he and his third are imprisoned.
I would think because he has fallen signaled by when Christ spoke the words "it is finished" .Satan can no longer deceive all the nations of the world. In so much that God is a God of the Jews and not the Father of all nations. That somehow men must follow after their corrupted flesh that even Jesus informs us it profits for nothing, zero.
Religion in respect to the bible God written witness, lost it temporal face and has a better face of all Mankind. We are in the thousand years period. Thousand years represents a unknown . Christ will come like a thief in the night . We can watch by faith like Noah but lightning will flash from east to west. The Old things will not be remembered or ever come to mind . Death as to the letter of the law served the good pleasure of God. It Death by the letter will not raise and condemn through corruption another entire creation .
So then it is not that he is not deceiving the world (impossible) but deceiving them in that manner. Taking away the face of the antichrists.
The parable below
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3
Religion in respect to the bible God written witness, lost it temporal face and has a better face of all Mankind. We are in the thousand years period. Thousand years represents a unknown . Christ will come like a thief in the night . We can watch by faith like Noah but lightning will flash from east to west. The Old things will not be remembered or ever come to mind . Death as to the letter of the law served the good pleasure of God. It Death by the letter will not raise and condemn through corruption another entire creation .
So then it is not that he is not deceiving the world (impossible) but deceiving them in that manner. Taking away the face of the antichrists.
The parable below
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3
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It cannot represent the fall of Eden . . the deception in the parable in Revelation 20 is in respect all nations .Eden is before the nations were formed.
Its simply turning things upside down having the exclusive faith of Christ that works in the believer in respect to the believer seen. And not Christ not seen. Jew looking to their flesh as if it offered a advantage over another that God creates faith by a work of His faith in us..
The Jews lost their temporal mask " Jewish flesh and blood" .A shadow of the eternal things to come .Satan could no longer cover himself with flesh as a the father of antichrists. He could not deceive the whole world in that way. A great tribulation we are in .Like never before or ever again It will end the last day . .. .a unknown .
Walk by faith the unseen eternal
Its simply turning things upside down having the exclusive faith of Christ that works in the believer in respect to the believer seen. And not Christ not seen. Jew looking to their flesh as if it offered a advantage over another that God creates faith by a work of His faith in us..
The Jews lost their temporal mask " Jewish flesh and blood" .A shadow of the eternal things to come .Satan could no longer cover himself with flesh as a the father of antichrists. He could not deceive the whole world in that way. A great tribulation we are in .Like never before or ever again It will end the last day . .. .a unknown .
Walk by faith the unseen eternal
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Its the good news God is the father of all nations. That's the gospel
How does a spirit that has no substance fall? We wrestle not against flesh and blood.
Falling in Love can raise ones hope.
He fell from the place of deceiving all the nations in so much that God was the God of the Jewish flesh. God bring his prophecy as the tongue of God through all the nations at Pentecost . . verified the veil was rent. The time of reformation is here. A time like never before or ever again
The idea of absence of him not deceiving at all is a impossibility. As long as men live in a body of death, under the sun deception will be there trying to silence the gospel.
How does a spirit that has no substance fall? We wrestle not against flesh and blood.
Falling in Love can raise ones hope.
He fell from the place of deceiving all the nations in so much that God was the God of the Jewish flesh. God bring his prophecy as the tongue of God through all the nations at Pentecost . . verified the veil was rent. The time of reformation is here. A time like never before or ever again
The idea of absence of him not deceiving at all is a impossibility. As long as men live in a body of death, under the sun deception will be there trying to silence the gospel.
Rev. 12 covers a large time frame. It covers the war in heaven, Satan and the third cast down to earth, the forming of the Church, Jesus first coming, the persecution of the Church and the defeat of Satan's army. It covers most of the 6-7 thousand years of our history. Many of the chapters cover large time frames and the whole book is not to be considered chronologically represented.
What it does not cover is the statement in Rev. 20 of him being bound to deceive the world (nations) anymore. That binding is at the second coming of our Lord. You try to make everything now and forever invisible. No, Christ said the second coming will be very visible:
Matt. 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
What it does not cover is the statement in Rev. 20 of him being bound to deceive the world (nations) anymore. That binding is at the second coming of our Lord. You try to make everything now and forever invisible. No, Christ said the second coming will be very visible:
Matt. 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
How does "falling from heaven" represent "God is the father of all the nations"? There is no direct connection between the two concepts.
Further, nowhere in Scripture is the truth that "God is the father of all nations" presented as "the gospel".
You're always saying that any passage in Scripture is a parable. Why do you now question the literal and physical?
Where is that in Scripture?
Your statement is absurd. First, you use a double negative, which is always suspect. Second, ideas are never impossible, though the outworking of them may be. Third, Scripture clearly states that the deceiver will be bound and prevented from deceiving the nations.
Further, nowhere in Scripture is the truth that "God is the father of all nations" presented as "the gospel".
You're always saying that any passage in Scripture is a parable. Why do you now question the literal and physical?
Where is that in Scripture?
Your statement is absurd. First, you use a double negative, which is always suspect. Second, ideas are never impossible, though the outworking of them may be. Third, Scripture clearly states that the deceiver will be bound and prevented from deceiving the nations.
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