Not By Works

[gb9]

Show me in the verse below where it says believing is you trying to earn your salvation by working for it:

"5 to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" - Romans 4:5



You receive justification the moment you believe.
And that justification remains as you remain in that believing.

but, you do not believe this.

you say this, then you go on to say that if one is not doing enough good works, then one could " fall into unbelief ", thereby bringing in a works based mindset.

you have been shown this by many others , too bad you can't see it....

 

[Judges1318]

Show me in the verse below where it says believing is you trying to earn your salvation by working for it:

"5 to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" - Romans 4:5

You receive justification the moment you believe.
And that justification remains as you remain in that believing.

you say this, then you go on to say that if one is not doing enough good works, then one could " fall into unbelief "

What I said was what Hebrews 3:12-13 says:

"12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness."

Is there something you do not agree with in the passage?

...thereby bringing in a works based mindset.

I never made that connection.
I wouldn't because I think being hardened in unbelief by the deceitfulness of sin would be seen in a return to the deeds of the flesh (adultery, drunkenness, etc.), not seen in trying to earn your salvation by works.

 

[G2RBeliever]

Job24:1-2 WHY,seeing TIMES are not hidden from the Almighty,do they NOT know Him not see His days.
SOME remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks,and feed thereof.

 

[G2RBeliever]

Job 24:13 They are those that rebel against the LIGHT; they know NOT the ways thereof,not ABIDE in the paths thereof

 

[mailmandan]

God's says unless we mortify the deeds of the body through the Spirit we will die.

If a person’s intent is to live according to the flesh, it’s an indication that he is not saved. Yet if a person, by the Spirit is putting to death the deeds of the body, it's an indication he is saved.

Romans 8:13 (AMP) - for if you are living according to the [impulses of the] flesh, you are going to die. But if [you are living] by the [power of the Holy] Spirit you are habitually putting to death the sinful deeds of the body, you will [really] live forever.

Romans 8:5 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[gb9]

What I said was what Hebrews 3:12-13 says:

"12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness."

Is there something you do not agree with in the passage?


I never made that connection.
I wouldn't because I think being hardened in unbelief by the deceitfulness of sin would be seen in a return to the deeds of the flesh (adultery, drunkenness, etc.), not seen in trying to earn your salvation by works.

theology built around individual verses is invalid,

Hebrews 3, in context, the writer is warning against unbelief buy using the example of Israel refusing to enter cannan because they did not BELIEVE God could conquer the tribes that lived there.

and, in that story, your lordship salvation junk would teach that Israel was obeying and doing good works. they were following the cloud, keeping the Sabbath, staying in camp till the could moved, breaking camp as they were told.

all that looked good on the outside, which is how you judge.

but, what really counts, the inner belief was not there.

and your junk theology denies this.

 

[EleventhHour]

What I said was what Hebrews 3:12-13 says:

"12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness."

Is there something you do not agree with in the passage?


I never made that connection.
I wouldn't because I think being hardened in unbelief by the deceitfulness of sin would be seen in a return to the deeds of the flesh (adultery, drunkenness, etc.), not seen in trying to earn your salvation by works.

All sin paid for on the cross for all time.

 

[Judges1318]

All sin paid for on the cross for all time.

...as long as you are still doing the believing you started out in.
All the promises are for those with present tense, uninterrupted believing, not for those who never believed or who used to believe.

Unbelievers do not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Judges1318]

lordship salvation junk

Lordship does not earn salvation. Lordship is the sign of the child of God.
The person who doesn't do what the Lord commands is not a child of God:

"10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10

We know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are by how they act.
What part of this verse do you and 11th hour not agree with?

 

[Judges1318]

all that looked good on the outside, which is how you judge.

...because that's how Jesus and John told us to 'judge' whether someone is a believer or not.
It's like you don't even know what the Bible says about this.
Few Christians do it seems.

 

[EleventhHour]

...as long as you are still doing the believing you started out in.
All the promises are for those with present tense, uninterrupted believing, not for those who never believed or who used to believe.

Unbelievers do not inherit the kingdom of God.

I never stated otherwise. All sin dealt with at the cross.

The believer has an eternal status, deemed justified, sanctified and righteous by believing upon/trusting in Christ Jesus for eternal life once, it cannot be revoked.

 

[walknlight]

The person who doesn't do what the Lord commands is not a child of God:

We all were once (or still are)"children of disobedience".

We know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are by how they act.

The prodigal son shows once you are His, you are His.

God Bless...

 

[Brandnewday]

Yes, there are lots of babies in the church who think the correctness of doctrine, particularly osas doctrine, is what it means to believe and be saved and be spiritual and have God's approval. But their lives show they "do not yet know as they ought to know " (1 Corinthians 8:2), and are "conceited and understand nothing" about godliness (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

1 I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? - 1 Corinthians 3:1,3

Jesus wasn't just talking about salvation when he said this:

13“...the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13-14

It seems there are lots of Christians who will never find "the life that is truly life" (1 Timothy 6:19), the life of "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17). Instead, they will live out their lives in the dogmatic wranglings of baby milk doctrines thinking that is what constitutes the life of knowing Jesus. They have yet to move on to maturity and to that which really matters (Galatians 5:6, 6:15).

I read someone say in a different discussion that faith isn't about feelings. That's not an exact recollection of their exact words in their posting. However, it is the sum of what was said and meant.
I would disagree. And I think that may be part of the issue when encountering brash people who are verbally abusive and yet proclaim Christ. And worse, defend that by putting themselves on equal footing with God so as to imply they're just imitating how he treats people in the bible.

I think the reason for that deplorable conduct is because the truth of God is not in them. The change that is suppose to occur to a person once they've entered into their redemptive journey in Christ isn't actually there. They're the same person they were before they claimed to have been saved. Now instead of their full legal name being what they go by, they've added Christian as a mere nickname.

Image and likeness of Christ just doesn't coincide with negative personality.

 

[14meatcc]

AMEN! I KNOW, as LONG as you TRUST HIM, HE WILL GIVE YOU THE VICTORY over the addiction. My wife was addicted to Pain Pills, when I first met her. She had a hard time kicking the addiction, because she had not FULLY Trusted the LORD YET! One day when Dad and I went fishing, she decided to go for Donuts, but before she left the house she popped several pain pills and muscle relaxers. The Donuts Shop was about a mile away. On the way home, she passed out while driving and Hit a telephone pole size of a Steel Sign Post, during our first year of Marriage. She hit the steering wheel so hard, it bruised her heart. Actually it stopped beating on the Emergency Room table, and they had to defib her, to get it started again.

After she got out of the hospital, I needed help from somebody to keep an eye on her, while I went to work in the Post Office. Her Mother volunteered to help us. Her Mother was in the habit of Praying for my wife, Bobbi, in the morning. About a week and a half later, here Mother, the Prayer Warrior, was on her kneels praying for Bobbi, out loud; when Bobbi came out of her Bed Room, and saw her PRAYING EARNESTLY FOR HER. Something Precious HAPPEN TO HER, THE SIGHT OF HER MOTHER PRAYING FOR HER, dropped her to her KNEES, as she REPENTED, now CRYING, and she cried out to the LORD, "FORGIVE ME! PLEASE TAKE THIS ADDICTION AWAY FROM ME!" And she meant that prayer with her WHOLE BEING.

She had built up her tolerance, to where she was actually taking what would be a LETHAL dose for normal person. SHE WENT FROM THAT ALL TIME HIGH OF PAIN PILLS, to ZERO that day, WITHOUT WITHDRAWALS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I AM A WITNESS! A few days later, she had an appointment with her doctor. He insisted that she checked in at the local Rehab Center. I tried to explain that SHE had been HEALED of the Addiction, in answer to Prayer. The Dr. said, "If you believe that, you are either a fool, or a liar." I figured out that the Dr. was not a CHRISTIAN real QUICK. So my wife went into the REHAB CENTER anyhow.

We were 36.5 years of marriage, when the LORD called her Home with a fatal heart attack.

View attachment 213763
That is the Two of US, about 30 years ago, in the Redwoods near Crescent City, CA.
Where GOD wanted us to move to, so I could Start a PRISON Ministry. Yes, I am 71 now.

KEEP TRUSTED HIM TOTALLY!

God bless you my brother. Thank you very much for the story and words of encouragement. It really does give me hope. I cant love god and mammon. I hate it so bad. There's no doubt I'm the habitual prodigal son. I've cried out to God, but he knows me better than I do so maybe I am holding onto a reservation or something, or maybe it's for a testimony to further glorify him, because the glory of god is more important than my salvation. I would give up my salvation if it was for the glory of God. Again, God bless you and your faith. Keep it my brother, you are an encouragement.
In Christ,
Bob

 

[14meatcc]

Well, let us see then. Dissensions are all over the BDF forum from what I've read others say of the board. Some even avoid a board where the bible is discussed in this Christian community due to the discord, hatred, dissensions and even factions that align together on the same track and weave dissension, sew discord, express hatred.

Works have everything to do with your salvation. If not, why does God judge you by your works and reward accordingly when you stand before him after death?
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, both great and small stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged of those things, which were written in the books, according to their works.

And then there is this that in part explains why you'll be judged for your works. Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13. for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

You error in your doctrine. If the gospel stands for "Good news" could you please explain exactly what that good news is please. Not only for israel but the gentiles also? Thanks

 

[14meatcc]

Just a little reminder

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[VCO]

God bless you my brother. Thank you very much for the story and words of encouragement. It really does give me hope. I cant love god and mammon. I hate it so bad. There's no doubt I'm the habitual prodigal son. I've cried out to God, but he knows me better than I do so maybe I am holding onto a reservation or something, or maybe it's for a testimony to further glorify him, because the glory of god is more important than my salvation. I would give up my salvation if it was for the glory of God. Again, God bless you and your faith. Keep it my brother, you are an encouragement.
In Christ,
Bob

I think most people think they can depend on Jesus threw the ruff spots in life, then INSIST to take back the Reigns when its runing smoothly. And proceed to drive the boggy in the ditch. You have to get this attitude of JESUS IS MY PILOT, and I do not even know how to control the Plane. That is the kind of TRUST I have, BECAUSE HE DOES. I was Born Again in 1977, the last week. He flies the Plane of Ministry, and I am just one of the passengers. Thanks just came in my head then the sermon just flowed, and I was just AWED. I even wanted to take notes on my self sometimes, when HE AWED me

 

[Lafftur]

I read someone say in a different discussion that faith isn't about feelings. That's not an exact recollection of their exact words in their posting. However, it is the sum of what was said and meant.
I would disagree. And I think that may be part of the issue when encountering brash people who are verbally abusive and yet proclaim Christ. And worse, defend that by putting themselves on equal footing with God so as to imply they're just imitating how he treats people in the bible.

I think the reason for that deplorable conduct is because the truth of God is not in them. The change that is suppose to occur to a person once they've entered into their redemptive journey in Christ isn't actually there. They're the same person they were before they claimed to have been saved. Now instead of their full legal name being what they go by, they've added Christian as a mere nickname.

Image and likeness of Christ just doesn't coincide with negative personality.

Whoa! Whoa! You responding to Judges1318 - both of you sound like a runaway train wreck.

Hold on, first and foremost- y’all are loved by God and He seeks a relationship with you.

You can say No and walk away......no reason to bad mouth people that love God.

 

[Lafftur]

Yes, there are lots of babies in the church who think the correctness of doctrine, particularly osas doctrine, is what it means to believe and be saved and be spiritual and have God's approval. But their lives show they "do not yet know as they ought to know " (1 Corinthians 8:2), and are "conceited and understand nothing" about godliness (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

1 I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? - 1 Corinthians 3:1,3

Jesus wasn't just talking about salvation when he said this:

13“...the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13-14

It seems there are lots of Christians who will never find "the life that is truly life" (1 Timothy 6:19), the life of "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17). Instead, they will live out their lives in the dogmatic wranglings of baby milk doctrines thinking that is what constitutes the life of knowing Jesus. They have yet to move on to maturity and to that which really matters (Galatians 5:6, 6:15).

Are your words even those that Christ would recognize?

It’s obvious your agenda is to hurt the flock - your words are condemning words and do NOT give life.

Your own words will judge and condemn you because they are lies, the Truth is NOT in you.

 

[Lafftur]

...because that's how Jesus and John told us to 'judge' whether someone is a believer or not.
It's like you don't even know what the Bible says about this.
Few Christians do it seems.

I see no fruit in you..... why judge someone’s fruit when you have none?