The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

[garee]

Why do you think that?

Its what the bible teaches. That time of trouble like never before began when the time of reformation had come. The last days .

Why would a person think it is pending? What are they waiting for more action then did occur and is still doing it work of the great tribulation.

There is no sign as a wonderment or source of faith. Sign of the times yes. Business as usual up till the last day. The sign of Jonas was the last. Jesus fulfilled that at his resurrection.

 

[garee]

It depends on the verse. According to my research the term "Thousand Years" is actually talking about one thousand periods consisting of one years each in Rev 20:2, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 16. So those scriptures are actually talking about a real thousand year period time when it come to the reign of Christ here on earth.

Christ is reigning here on earth. When he left he informed us that even though some did know him after the flesh and also walked by faith, faith establishing the unseen relationship . He did inform us when he disappeared we know longer can expect another outward demonstration of the unseen work of the father. One demonstration is all that was promised. God is not a man as .

Many today are looking for another demonstration in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Jesus said if he does not leave he could not come in the power of the Spirit that we have in our earthly bodies of death in order to begin his new reign over a kingdom of priest. Men and woman from all nations . we became the temple the new temporal, replacing the old pagan design . In heaven there is none temple

I have not heard of the idea of a thousand one year periods before.

The phrase thousand years is used 9 times and not once as a literal comparison. Besides that it would make the rest of the metaphors in that parable (Revelation 20) stand out like a sore thumb .

In most case the foundation of the use of metaphors is established in the Old testament. The unseen spiritual or what I call gospel understanding must be compared to the spiritual unseen not to the idea of the literal .then the parables loses its work and every thing in that context becomes the literal what the eyes see taking away the gospel vision making it without effect.

The three times the metaphor does appear it represent a unknown

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

A thousand yeas is not literal yesterday. As in the above verse reveals a parable is in view. (a comparison) .God is timeless

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Again a undetermined period

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

A thousand literal years is not one day. Again a undetermined period.

The word thousand is used over and over throughout the Bible to represent a unknown .not only with time but numbering people or other things . We walk by faith the unseen understanding. Not according to the letter of the law by sight.

That whole portion is a parable using the signified understanding spoken of in the opening of the book of Revelation 1:1. The parable in chapter 20 continues through the next chapter 21 when it identifies the city prepared as a bride.

It would be like the use of parables the series of Luke 16 which begin in the first verse and ends at the end of the chapter . Some remove a portion of that parable literalizing it to try and define hell . Which is not part of the context. Hell is not defined in that parable of "two interpretation masters"

 

[cv5]

They had a veil over their eyes so they could not understand scripture. Why choose their millennial beliefs over Jesus' teaching about the kingdom?

The fullness of the MYSTERY of the Church was revealed THRU PAUL (by direct revelation from Jesus). Jesus in his ministry DID NOT reveal the full revelation of the Church. That occurred after Pentecost through Paul and Paul alone. Same goes for the temporary blindness upon Israel. Only Paul fully discloses this matter.

 

[Dave-L]

The fullness of the MYSTERY of the Church was revealed THRU PAUL (by direct revelation from Jesus). Jesus in his ministry DID NOT reveal the full revelation of the Church. That occurred after Pentecost through Paul and Paul alone. Same goes for the temporary blindness upon Israel. Only Paul fully discloses this matter.

God revealed it first to Abraham, that the gentiles would be blessed (saved) in him. Also to the Apostles when told to preach to the whole world.

 

[cv5]

God revealed it first to Abraham, that the gentiles would be blessed (saved) in him. Also to the Apostles when told to preach to the whole world.

The "fullness" was only revealed thru Paul 1 Cor 2:7, Eph 3:3. Boilerplate fact. Paul revealed the rapture as well in full detail.

 

[Dave-L]

The "fullness" was only revealed thru Paul. Boilerplate fact. Paul revealed the rapture as well in full detail.

The mystery existed but only a few received the Revelation of it including Paul. Jesus taught the end of the world and Paul gave the details if that's what you are talking about.

 

[Dino246]

Its what the bible teaches. That time of trouble like never before began when the time of reformation had come. The last days .

Why would a person think it is pending? What are they waiting for more action then did occur and is still doing it work of the great tribulation.

There is no sign as a wonderment or source of faith. Sign of the times yes. Business as usual up till the last day. The sign of Jonas was the last. Jesus fulfilled that at his resurrection.

For context, this is your answer to my question regarding this question: "How do you know for sure we are not in the what is called GT none like ever before or ever again?"

Okay, where does the Bible teach that? In which passage or passages? I don't share your conclusion, so I'm curious how you came to it.

 

[cv5]

The mystery existed but only a few received the Revelation of it including Paul. Jesus taught the end of the world and Paul gave the details if that's what you are talking about.

FYI Rom 11:25 only makes sense in the framework of the 70th week of Daniel, the Rapture, Zech 12:10, Hos 5:15, premillenilism, the entire book of Revelation and on and on.

The preterists and amillenialists are dead wrong, hopelessly ignorant IMO.

 

[Dave-L]

FYI Rom 11:25 only makes sense in the framework of the 70th week of Daniel, the Rapture, Zech 12:10, Hos 5:15, premillenilism, the entire book of Revelation and on and on.

The preterists and amillenialists are dead wrong, hopelessly ignorant IMO.

Daniel's 70th week came to pass as predicted. The blind did not see the physical kingdom arrive as they expected, so they said it must be future. So they invented a gap pushing the 70th-week thousands of years into the future. Also turning Jesus who fulfilled it into Antichrist who was a no show. But the born again could see the kingdom had arrived as planned and they still see it, knowing it is eternal.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)

 

[massorite]

Christ is reigning here on earth. When he left he informed us that even though some did know him after the flesh and also walked by faith, faith establishing the unseen relationship . He did inform us when he disappeared we know longer can expect another outward demonstration of the unseen work of the father. One demonstration is all that was promised. God is not a man as .

Many today are looking for another demonstration in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Jesus said if he does not leave he could not come in the power of the Spirit that we have in our earthly bodies of death in order to begin his new reign over a kingdom of priest. Men and woman from all nations . we became the temple the new temporal, replacing the old pagan design . In heaven there is none temple

I have not heard of the idea of a thousand one year periods before.

The phrase thousand years is used 9 times and not once as a literal comparison. Besides that it would make the rest of the metaphors in that parable (Revelation 20) stand out like a sore thumb .

In most case the foundation of the use of metaphors is established in the Old testament. The unseen spiritual or what I call gospel understanding must be compared to the spiritual unseen not to the idea of the literal .then the parables loses its work and every thing in that context becomes the literal what the eyes see taking away the gospel vision making it without effect.
The three times the metaphor does appear it represent a unknown

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

A thousand yeas is not literal yesterday. As in the above verse reveals a parable is in view. (a comparison) .God is timeless

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Again a undetermined period

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

A thousand literal years is not one day. Again a undetermined period.

The word thousand is used over and over throughout the Bible to represent a unknown .not only with time but numbering people or other things . We walk by faith the unseen understanding. Not according to the letter of the law by sight.

That whole portion is a parable using the signified understanding spoken of in the opening of the book of Revelation 1:1. The parable in chapter 20 continues through the next chapter 21 when it identifies the city prepared as a bride.

It would be like the use of parables the series of Luke 16 which begin in the first verse and ends at the end of the chapter . Some remove a portion of that parable literalizing it to try and define hell . Which is not part of the context. Hell is not defined in that parable of "two interpretation masters"

2 Peter 3:8 is one of those scriptures where the thousand years is not literal. You should open your mind a little and realize that not every place in scripture where the word"thousand" is not speaking a metaphor. Just like the word "cloud or clouds" , in some places in scripture the word "clouds" is actually speaking of the clouds we see in the sky every day. But in other places the words"clouds" is speaking og the Glory of God.
No Christ is not reigning here on earth. Satan is the god of this world. You are seriously misguided. How can Christ be reigning when Satan has so much power and influence in this world???
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Christ and Satan are like oil and water. It is impossible for the two to be mixed together and equally impossible for them both to be dominant or to be the god of this world here on earth at the same time.
Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
This is why Satan is cast down into the pit during the true reign of Christ for the thousand years. AFTER THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[cv5]

Daniel's 70th week came to pass as predicted. The blind did not see the physical kingdom arrive as they expected, so they said it must be future. So they invented a gap pushing the 70th-week thousands of years into the future. Also turning Jesus who fulfilled it into Antichrist who was a no show. But the born again could see the kingdom had arrived as planned and they still see it, knowing it is eternal.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)

The blind eh? The Apostolic fathers, taught by the Apostles, missed the return of Christ? Preposterous.

 

[Dave-L]

The blind eh? The Apostolic fathers, taught by the Apostles, missed the return of Christ? Preposterous.

Amillennialism began with Jesus. And the Apostles preached the gospel of the kingdom. Peter taught Amillennialism in Acts 2 as did Paul in Thessalonians.

 

[garee]

2 Peter 3:8 is one of those scriptures where the thousand years is not literal. You should open your mind a little and realize that not every place in scripture where the word"thousand" is not speaking a metaphor. Just like the word "cloud or clouds" , in some places in scripture the word "clouds" is actually speaking of the clouds we see in the sky every day. But in other places the words"clouds" is speaking og the Glory of God.
No Christ is not reigning here on earth. Satan is the god of this world. You are seriously misguided. How can Christ be reigning when Satan has so much power and influence in this world???
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Christ and Satan are like oil and water. It is impossible for the two to be mixed together and equally impossible for them both to be dominant or to be the god of this world here on earth at the same time.
Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
This is why Satan is cast down into the pit during the true reign of Christ for the thousand years. AFTER THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

My mind is open to what the spirit reveals . .I would think we are all on a learning curve.

All three of the places are not to be understood literal. Not just the Peter reference.

Its the influence the gospel, the key that binds the spirit of error and loosens his grip on the individual .The binding and loosening key. The spiritual unseen understanding must be compared to the same .faith to faith .face to face.

In Mark 5 the Spirit of Christ uses section of history as parable to help understand.the parable in Revelation 20

When a new believer is freed by the gospel key; "Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit". the negative influence leaves not in apart but the whole legion as a new creature .

Mark 5 King James Version (KJV) And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Mark 5:1-10

Jesus holds the binding and loosening key of heaven and hell .

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.Revelation 20:1-3

The idea that he should deceive the nations no more is evident . The mystery in that parable is revealed God is the God of all the nations .The result of the reformation . Up until then the father of lies had the power to lead men according to what the eyes see the temporal.(walk by sight) The reformation reformed that kind of idea . The government is restored to the time period of Judges. No outward representation we walk by faith serving our unseen King of kings

We have the power of Christ reigning in these earthen bodies of death. That power to loose and bind simply is not of us

To say Christ is not reigning at all would mean the end has come.

We are the temple He is the key the open door. On the last day the letter of the law Death with be cast into the fire never to rise and condemn by corruption another creation. removing the the tool of the father of lies .the letter of the law. Then in our new bodies the enemy is gone.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

2 Thessalonians 2:3
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

And I never see a verse that say pretrib

Ask yourself... what "day" is verse 3 speaking of?



If you answer (as many ppl do), why, of course, "the event that verse 1 was speaking of" (i.e. our Rapture / the presence of Christ), then you've missed Paul's point here. He's not speaking of that event here in verse 3.

For example, in verse 2, Paul is not making the point, "don't let anyone convince you that THE RAPTURE has happened". No.

He's not saying that.


So, what say you? What "day" is verse 3 (in your quote ^ ) referring to?

And I never see a verse that say pretrib

 

[garee]

The blind eh? The Apostolic fathers, taught by the Apostles, missed the return of Christ? Preposterous.

The apostles were taught be the same God who teaches us. They had no advantage. In fact they were at a disadvantage until the last prophecy was revealed to John.

If we are not reigning with Christ as his temple then what would be the purpose of the power? Christ is here.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Absolutely]

My brother. If you do sure about pretrib why you not answer my question on # 787

Mat 24

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Please answer my question

1. Verse 37 say

A. As the day of Noah so shall the tribulation

Or

B. As the day of Noah so shall be the second coming.

Chose A or B.

2. Is Verse 39 say

A. And knew not till the flood come and took them all away so shall the great tribulation

Or

B. And knew not till the flood come and took all them away so shall the coming of the son.

Chose A OR B please

When God took them away ( verse 39)

Before tribulation or before second coming.

Di,plea question brother.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

B. As the day of Noah so shall be the second coming.

Chose A or B.

2. Is Verse 39 say

A. And knew not till the flood come and took them all away so shall the great tribulation

Or

B. And knew not till the flood come and took all them away so shall the coming of the son.

Chose A OR B please

When God took them away ( verse 39)

Before tribulation or before second coming.

What it says.
Before the flood.

If you think the rapture is after the flood, then show me where Jesus is mistaken.

What you are doing is trying to make the second coming AFTER THE TRIB/FLOOD the same thing as the rapture BEFORE THE TRIB/ FLOOD.

Either Jesus is
A) confused
B)telling you the truth that he is now changing the dynamic and talking about ANOTHER APPEARING TO TAKE THE BRIDE.
There are Only 2 possibilities.
Choose a or b

But impossible that Jesus got the rapture all jumbled up and unplausable.

It is definitely 2 separate events.
Vs 37 SHIFTS TO BEFORE THE FLOOD DYNAMIC...NOAH


And vs38 TELLS YOU THAT....a timeline change (now we are looking at "before the flood/trib/judgement")

 

[Nehemiah6]

They had a veil over their eyes so they could not understand scripture.

This is the pot calling the kettle black. You also have a veil over your eyes and you are also blind to the truth. Had you understood all the Scriptures about the eternal Kingdom of God on earth, you would not be posting nonsense.

 

[Absolutely]

Jesus continues in the preflood/pretrib timeline, and says IMMEDITELY;
"ONE TAKEN, ONE LEFT"
THEN;
"WATCH AND BE READY"
THEN
"BUT SOME WILL SAY MY LORD DELAYETH HIS COMING"
"THEY SHALL BE CAST ITO THE LOT WITH HIPPOCRITES"

All that is vivid pretrib alignment
Vivid,vivid,vivid

 

[Dave-L]

This is the pot calling the kettle black. You also have a veil over your eyes and you are also blind to the truth. Had you understood all the Scriptures about the eternal Kingdom of God on earth, you would not be posting nonsense.

If the Pharisees had a veil over their eyes, and people believe the same as they do. How do they not share the same veil?

 

[cv5]

Amillennialism began with Jesus. And the Apostles preached the gospel of the kingdom. Peter taught Amillennialism in Acts 2 as did Paul in Thessalonians.

False. All propecy will be fulfilled, the bulk of it pertaining to Israel and the millenial reign of King Jesus.