The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman
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Jesus framed the rapture pretrib
"Before the flood..."
Lot
"One taken,one left"
The 10 virgins
"....because you have kept my word,I will keep you from the time of testing"
"But pray that you will be counted WORTHY to escape the things about to come upon the world"
Pretrib rapture verses big time
Not even getting started as rev 14 is a nuclear bomb to the false postrib rapture.
And ask yourself why ,in your position,you guys miss the apex of the bride/groom dynamic?
The very purpose of the rapture escapes the postrib adherent.
How is that even possible????
Awesome, and sorry to jump in, but I'm so glad I found you because I have a problem with ANY of this happening in the future at all. My biggest conflict, and the very thing I want to ask you about, is this concept of a 3rd temple. First thing, do you believe that the AoD takes place in God's temple, and I believe the ONLY thing that can make a temple "God's temple", is the fact that the true Creator God dwells within that temple, not to mention that by logical necessity He would also have to command that temple built, as He did both times before. Do you believe what is spoken of in Dan & Rev takes place in Gods temple? I really need to know what you believe about the Abomination of Desolation and where God tells us these things will happens. Thank you for your civil rationality.
Do you remember I say what happen to Stephen, john the baptis etc?
God not stop this devil tribulation nor rapture Stephen or John the Baptist before people kill them.
Do you remember I explain that in great tribulation according rev 13 the devil wrath, not God wrath.
I wish God always rapture us when ever there is devil tribulation. But Paul say
Otherwise.
2 Thessalonians
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Your error is you think mark of the beast as wrath of God.
Let me remind you one more time.
God not rapture Israel when God wrath happen to agypt
God able to protect without rapture.
Paul not lie, he say rapture happen after man of sin or tribulation
Matt 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be
You repeat the same mistake 5 time brother
I told you to read matt 24:37
Noah escape from flood
What is flood represent? Not get
Flood represent second coming
One more time
Flood represent second coming not get.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Let me ask you question
Is verse 31 happen before verse 30?
what is verse 30 talking about
John MacArthur admitted that the Rapture is not taught in the book of Revelation.
Where did he say it was taught? "in the white spaces". He admits it's not there whatsoever.....yet dispensationalists criticize amillennialists concerning their hermeneutical approach in this book
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/1290/a-jet-tour-through-revelation
Here's another interesting sermon related to this topic:
Where did he say it was taught? "in the white spaces". He admits it's not there whatsoever.....yet dispensationalists criticize amillennialists concerning their hermeneutical approach in this book
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/1290/a-jet-tour-through-revelation
Here's another interesting sermon related to this topic:
As far as I know the answer to what precisely is meant by the Abomination of Desolation standing in the holy place, let the reader understand, as found in the Book of Matthew chapter 24 , has been debated for a very long time. I think the reason is there are parts of the passage that have been omitted for the purpose of hiding the full import of the prophecy. By whom I am not aware but it does seem that way.
Given what we have to go by in all those scriptures that refer to the Abomination of Desolation "standing" in the holy place, and given what I've said about ourselves being Gods temple, I'll go out on a limb since you asked.
I think the Abomination of Desolation will be a literal flag that will be set in the holy place in Jerusalem's major synagogue, and in all Christian churches that will be rendered closed and off limits due to a one world order type of power set or government that will rise up. In the place of a cross , as is in most churches, there will be that flag. Think of how American's today pledge allegiance to our flag of the United States of America.
That flag positioned in those holy temples in the Judeo-Christian sanctuaries around the globe will be there to depict the same identity. Allegiance!
That's why the churches and synagogues will be closed, the holy relics or statues, like a cross, will be removed and the flag will be "planted" in their stead. The new allegiance is to the order. The seen. Because the message of that planting will be that the unseen that those believers held in faith did not save them from that new beginning under that one world government rule. So the new worldly ruler having overtaken the temporal Lord will stand in "his" stead.
That then will meet the criteria, the definition in old Hebrew, of "Abomination", and the "Desolation" will be the holy consecrated "properties", ground, temples, will be made desolate by that abomination that sought to overtake the sacred space believers cherish.
That's my take. That is what comes to me when asked to consider your question. Thank you for asking me. Blessings.
Wrath means punishment and Tribulation means Affliction. Haven't got a clue where you got your number from. The word "Wrath" has more then one meaning in the bible. However the word "Wrath" when speaking of the Wrath of God is not the same number you have given does mean Pressure, to press and more but the word "Wrath" in the Greek for G2346 is spelled differently then the word "Wrath" as in the Wrath of God is spelled and does not apply to the word "Wrath" when speaking of the Wrath of God. According to my Strong's the number is G3709 for the word "Wrath" as in Wrath of God in Matt.3:7, Luke 3:7, Luke 21:23, Rom 1:18, Eph. 5:6, Rev 6:16 as in the Wrath of the Lamb, Rev. 14:10 and several other scriptures where the Wrath of God is spoken of.
Other numbers associated with the word Wrath in New Testament scripture are G2372, G3949, G3950. Your number for the word Wrath G2346 applies to scriptures like Mark 3:9, Matt. 7:14, 2 Thess. 1:6 and does not apply to the Wrath of God.
Thank you for your input though.
Talk is cheap. Lets see the scriptures.
Rev, 14 tells us about the 144,000, A message from 3 angels and the harvest of the earth/Resurrection day. But there is not one single word in Rev 14 about any 7 years of Tribulation or 7 years of the wrath of God. There is nothing in Rev 14 about Resurrection taking place before a period of Tribulation or after a period of Tribulation. If anything Rev. 14 is telling us that the harvesting of the earth happens just before or even after the battle of Armageddon.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Blood raising to the level of a horses bridle is talking about the battle of Armageddon. If that were true, that would mean that the resurrection does not take place until after a period Tribulation and just before the battle of Armageddon. That is unless you believe that the battle of Armageddon happens before the Resurrection. LOL And we all know that the battle of Armageddon happens at the end of a period of seven years and the wrath of God is pored out on the earth.
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Man REALLY you are mixed up, calling scripture something that it doesn't even speak of and in reality you have proven my point that "THERE WILL BE NO RESURRECTION UNTIL AFTER A PERIOD OF 3 1/2 YEAR OF GREAT TRIBULATION.
As I said, everybody know that the resurrection happens before the battle of Armageddon and the battle of Armageddon happens after the Wrath of God is pored out onto the earth.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Again as I have said. Talking without scripture is really cheap and doesn't prove anything, especially a Pre-Trib doctrinal belief
So put your scripture where your mouth is! In which scriptures are words of Jesus directly against me?
Where in the Word of God does't it tell us that there will be a Rapture before a Resurrection?? If you are beyond the shadow of a doubt correct it should be easy to quote some scripture proving I am wrong.
So far you have failed to do that. Not once have you provided scripture to prove you are right. But I on the other hand I have provided many scriptures to prove you are wrong and you haven't been able to prove that any of those scroptures I have quote are being minipulated to fit a Post Trib doctrine.
One of the big issues with the dispensationalist view is that much of the content of Revelation is attack upon God's people (the Church) by Satan and his cohorts, both angelic and human. It is part of the war between children of the woman and children of the serpent.
It's really only the last ten trumpets, which occur after the resurrection (and changing) of God's people which could be properly called God's wrath.
In fact, God's wrath is actually a reaction to the evil events that are perpetrated by the servants of Satan over the course of millennia, but more focused at the end.
By the way, when asked about the Rapture and where it appears in the Bible, John MacArthur stated "in the white space". In other words, it doesn't appear AT ALL. It is inferred by dispensationalism, which proposes that the Church bails out seven months prior, rather than staying and being a faithful witness.
And, as mentioned, the origin of the teaching is likely the claims of a young woman.
It's really only the last ten trumpets, which occur after the resurrection (and changing) of God's people which could be properly called God's wrath.
In fact, God's wrath is actually a reaction to the evil events that are perpetrated by the servants of Satan over the course of millennia, but more focused at the end.
By the way, when asked about the Rapture and where it appears in the Bible, John MacArthur stated "in the white space". In other words, it doesn't appear AT ALL. It is inferred by dispensationalism, which proposes that the Church bails out seven months prior, rather than staying and being a faithful witness.
And, as mentioned, the origin of the teaching is likely the claims of a young woman.
The church is absent from the book of Revelation after chapter 3. The book of Revelation is aimed at Israel not the church. The terrible tribulation is aimed at Israel and centered on Jerusalem not the church.
The church is not appointed unto wrath. Israel is going to be chastised by God one last time to prepare them to see and receive their Redeemer Christ coming in the clouds and entering Jerusalem to save them from complete destruction.
Understanding dispensational teaching is key to comprehending what God is doing and why.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Lol
You leave out "before the flood"
You invert it to after the flood.
(Which means you changed how Jesus framed noah and the setting)
Then we keep reading to see if that "pretrib dynamic" is authenticated...and Bingo....Jesus says this;
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Beyond any doubt,Jesus is describing the pretrib rapture.
Jesus in the same chapter confirming the pretrib rapture and VIVIDLY differentiating the rapture from the second coming WITH THOSE FROM THE PRETRIB RAPTURE.
Without a doubt the rapture is pretrib
John mcarthur?John MacArthur admitted that the Rapture is not taught in the book of Revelation.
Where did he say it was taught? "in the white spaces". He admits it's not there whatsoever.....yet dispensationalists criticize amillennialists concerning their hermeneutical approach in this book
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/1290/a-jet-tour-through-revelation
Here's another interesting sermon related to this topic:
Does his bible contain rev 14?
Tell him to read it.
Does it contain the "7 letters"
Tell him to read the part about the rapture and get back to us.
""By the way, when asked about the Rapture and where it appears in the Bible, John MacArthur stated "in the white space". In other words, it doesn't appear AT ALL. It is inferred by dispensationalism, which proposes that the Church bails out seven months prior, rather than staying and being a faithful witness.""
Read my verses that I posted earlier.
Mcarthur is not a bible yardstick.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the best teachers.
But out of Jesus mouth we see the rapture many times.
Read my verses that I posted earlier.
Mcarthur is not a bible yardstick.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the best teachers.
But out of Jesus mouth we see the rapture many times.
You mean the one that said the church needed to go through the gt for purification?
Mrs McDonald?
Lol yeah you just made that up.
I dont believe you read my verses.
You can not say we have none.
Copy and paste my verses.
I want to see you embrace another possibility.
I can easily present the postrib doctrine.
It is easy.
It all cliche oriented.
Mine is VERSES.
POST MY VERSES . If you can not form alternative and challenging powerpoints,opposing MY VERSES ,then your deal is disingenuous.
Well thank you for such a well thought out and put together response. I mean that.As far as I know the answer to what precisely is meant by the Abomination of Desolation standing in the holy place, let the reader understand, as found in the Book of Matthew chapter 24 , has been debated for a very long time. I think the reason is there are parts of the passage that have been omitted for the purpose of hiding the full import of the prophecy. By whom I am not aware but it does seem that way.
Given what we have to go by in all those scriptures that refer to the Abomination of Desolation "standing" in the holy place, and given what I've said about ourselves being Gods temple, I'll go out on a limb since you asked.
I think the Abomination of Desolation will be a literal flag that will be set in the holy place in Jerusalem's major synagogue, and in all Christian churches that will be rendered closed and off limits due to a one world order type of power set or government that will rise up. In the place of a cross , as is in most churches, there will be that flag. Think of how American's today pledge allegiance to our flag of the United States of America.
That flag positioned in those holy temples in the Judeo-Christian sanctuaries around the globe will be there to depict the same identity. Allegiance!
That's why the churches and synagogues will be closed, the holy relics or statues, like a cross, will be removed and the flag will be "planted" in their stead. The new allegiance is to the order. The seen. Because the message of that planting will be that the unseen that those believers held in faith did not save them from that new beginning under that one world government rule. So the new worldly ruler having overtaken the temporal Lord will stand in "his" stead.
That then will meet the criteria, the definition in old Hebrew, of "Abomination", and the "Desolation" will be the holy consecrated "properties", ground, temples, will be made desolate by that abomination that sought to overtake the sacred space believers cherish.
That's my take. That is what comes to me when asked to consider your question. Thank you for asking me. Blessings.
Before I sound like I'm "attacking" can I ask you where you get all this from? I mean I understand this ts your own personal view of these things, but from my outside perspective seem to be a lot more "view" than what we read in scripture.
First of all that "holy place" is said to be in Jerusalem as well, and that the sacrifices are interrupted too. I don't think I've stepped too far outside logic to conclude the holy place in Jerusalem where sacrifices take place is God's temple. To be honest before I started seeing this problem and bringing it up I NEVER heard anything but this happens in the "3rd temple", now all of a sudden it's mushy and maybe this, or maybe that. Honestly it really blows my mind anyone with the futurist view doesn't firmly stand on this 3rd temple. Which the way I see it now do you think it's easy to stand firm on what I say I believe even when it causes others to lash out, blacklist, and call me names.(not you obviously) So when I get mish mush answers on questions like this, and now for the first time I hear things like "a literal flag that will be set in the holy place in Jerusalem's major synagogue, and in all Christian churches that will be rendered closed and off limits due to a one world order type of power set or government that will rise up" I just don't get it. A "major synagogue" is the holy place? Why? Where in the world do you draw this from scripture? <----I'm asking with all due respect, just in case it seems harsh, tone is impossible in text and I appreciate your whole attitude here and don't want to ruin it.
Okay here are the verses you posted most recently,
"Then we keep reading to see if that "pretrib dynamic" is authenticated...and Bingo....Jesus says this;
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."
I have a question for you keeping this exact context in mind. In this scenario, the whole scenario of Noah, the flood, and the wicked. In this scenario who was taken from the earth, the good or the wicked? On top of that who did God say inherits the earth? Just thoughts, not arguments here, it just doesn't match the way God has always done it in my mind.