Is it a sin to drink alcohol

[Lightskin]

No, but I've been to a bar.

Epic 😆👏😎

 

[Lightskin]

Yes, Proverbs 20:1, is a very clear text:

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.​

It is not the only text that teaches this either, but this one is special in its definition. Notice the definition and parallelism, but when this verse is studied in connection with the Cross of Calvary, and the events there, it takes on great meaning in the plan of redemption. Especially consider the character of the things identified.

Elaborate on John 2.

 

[wolfwint]

Consider the word itself in ancient use, and modern use, and then we can look at Bible use, and see it shows the same standard:

Let us also ask, at the outset, "Is there a dual use for the word "wine" in common language and is there such a use in the scriptures?"Let us look, and see that the answer is "Yes."

Well, in demonstrating the accuracy in saying "Yes"to the first half of the question:

"Wine – noun​

​

... [3]. the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc. ..." [Wine, definition] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wine​

Another:

"Wine - noun​

​

... something that invigorates or intoxicates..." [Wine, definition] - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wine​

​

And for additional purposes:

See that word, "intoxicate"? What does the word "intoxicate" mean?

Word Definition:

"Intoxicate- transitive verb​

​

1 poison​

​

2 a : to excite or stupefy by alcohol or a drug especially to the point where physical and mental control is markedly diminished b : to excite or elate to the point of enthusiasm or frenzy"[Intoxicate, definition] - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intoxicate​

Let us also ask a very basic question pertaining to these, "Can a person who is “intoxicated” [“poisons”] by any amount of such 'kind' of “wine” which is “alcoholic”bring “glory to God” in their drinking?"

What does the alcohol do to a persons health?

It impairs brain activity, slows down reactionary time, attacks kidneys, liver, bloodstream, causing cancer, disease, dizziness, loose morality, causing one to forget, relaxes and/or reduces self-control [thus giving up of the will], etc and is one of the major leading causes of death, abuse and misery in the world. Even the smallest amount begins to break down the immune system of the human body [multiple medical research reports can be cited for these facts if needed, though it should be plainly obvious [but for a brief, http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/yourlif....s_N.htm ], also ask those of SADD and MADD].

However, let us also consider further history of the word "wine":

Aristotle ["...(384 BC – 322 BC)[1] was a Greek philosopher and polymath, a student of Plato and teacher of Alexander the Great."[Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle]] said,"...Sweet wine does give off fumes, for it contains fat and behaves like oil. It does not solidify under the influence of cold and it is apt to burn. Really it is not wine at all in spite of its name: for it does not taste like wine and consequently does not inebriate as ordinary wine does. ...​

​

...( Wine is a liquid which raises a difficulty: for it is both liable to evaporation and it also thickens; for instance new wine does. The reason is that the word 'wine' is ambiguous and different 'wines' behave in different ways."- Meteorlogica Book IV [English] - http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/meteorology.4.iv.html​

Merriam-Websters 1828 Dictionary:"MUST, n. [L. mustum; Heb. to ferment.]; New wine; wine pressed from the grapebut notfermented."- http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resour....1828=on

And for many more, consider reading [or checking the references page of

​

[The Bible Wine Question. The Answer To The 'Unanswerable': Or An Exposure Of The Fallacies Of Three Irish Advocates (Professors Watts, Wallace And Murphy) And Eleven Syrian Witnesses; By Frederick Richard Lees]- https://books.google.com/books?id=wG1GAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false​

I can also recommend - Bible Wines, Laws of Fermentation; by William Patton - https://books.google.com/books?id=7AEAAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

We should seriously ask ourselves, "Does the alcohol bring life or death?"

Alcohol is merely a legalized [group morality] "intoxicant", another name for 'drug'. For those who advocate that a little or even 'moderate' [who defines that? and for whom?]use is ok, should also perhaps consider the "health benefits" and results of other such "intoxicants"/"drugs": caffeine [ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012....55.html], nicotine/tobacco[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning], cannabis [ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health....ar.html], etc - all destructive.

This should be sufficient in demonstrating the first half of the "Yes.", but now let us consider in greater detail the second half of the "Yes."answer.

"...The English word "wine" comes from the Proto-Germanic *winam, an early borrowing from the Latin vinum, "wine" or "(grape) vine", itself derived from the Proto-Indo-European stem *win-o- (cf. Hittite: wiyana; Lycian: oino; Ancient Greek: οἶνος oinos; Aeolic Greek: ϝοῖνος woinos).[5][6]..."[Wikipedia, Wine], and therefore, simply means anything 'of the vine', without reference to anything of alcoholic or fermentation content, although it may include such in one of its definitions.​

​

Interesting facts:

Some information for you, if you desire, since you disagree with me, I pray you do not disagree with the hard science, for in so doing, you will shorten your precious life by your choice in refusing it:

"... Alcohol is estimated to be associated with approximately 40,000 deaths per year in the UK and deaths from alcohol related causes are increasing at an alarming rate, having increased at least 8-fold since the 1970s [1]. ...​

​

... It was first described in 1926 that there is an association between fatty changes within the liver due to alcohol and sudden (presumed) arrhythmic death [4,5]. ...​

​

... Alcohol causes arrhythmias during life, including prolongation of the QT interval, which is associated with sudden cardiac death [2]. ..." - US National Library of Medicine; National Institutes of Health-Sudden Unexpected Death in Alcohol Misuse—An Unrecognized Public Health Issue?​

“Alcohol inhibits vitamin absorbency,” he says. “Particularly the absorption of B vitamins which can lead to dementia. It also changes the amount of fat in your blood, which increases your risk of high blood pressure, heart disease, g.​

Then at first you have our Lord Jesus Christ, who turned water into toxic wine as his first miracle. Ore do you think, the people would not recognize it if it was only jujce?
Again there is no single vers who forbits a believer to drink alcohol. And as I said to another brother, I hope do you not need to take medicine which contains alcohol.
Personal I stopped drinking alcohol, because of ehst it does with people. But zwice a year I drink some wine with my wife. And also I drink Kefir, which contains alcohol.
And a question how the made jujce storable in our Lords time? When I open a tetrapak with apple juice I have to drink in 3 days ore it will spoil.​

 

[wolfwint]

Then at first you have our Lord Jesus Christ, who turned water into toxic wine as his first miracle. Ore do you think, the people would not recognize it if it was only jujce?
Again there is no single vers who forbits a believer to drink alcohol. And as I said to another brother, I hope do you not need to take medicine which contains alcohol.
Personal I stopped drinking alcohol, because of ehst it does with people. But zwice a year I drink some wine with my wife. And also I drink Kefir, which contains alcohol.
And a question how the made jujce storable in our Lords time? When I open a tetrapak with apple juice I have to drink in 3 days ore it will spoil.​

I missed the word judge.
I wanted to say. At first you have to judge our Lord Jesus Christ who turned water into toxic wine.......

 

[wolfwint]

Consider the word itself in ancient use, and modern use, and then we can look at Bible use, and see it shows the same standard:

Let us also ask, at the outset, "Is there a dual use for the word "wine" in common language and is there such a use in the scriptures?"Let us look, and see that the answer is "Yes."

Well, in demonstrating the accuracy in saying "Yes"to the first half of the question:

"Wine – noun​

​

... [3]. the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc. ..." [Wine, definition] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wine​

Another:

"Wine - noun​

​

... something that invigorates or intoxicates..." [Wine, definition] - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wine​

​

And for additional purposes:

See that word, "intoxicate"? What does the word "intoxicate" mean?

Word Definition:

"Intoxicate- transitive verb​

​

1 poison​

​

2 a : to excite or stupefy by alcohol or a drug especially to the point where physical and mental control is markedly diminished b : to excite or elate to the point of enthusiasm or frenzy"[Intoxicate, definition] - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intoxicate​

Let us also ask a very basic question pertaining to these, "Can a person who is “intoxicated” [“poisons”] by any amount of such 'kind' of “wine” which is “alcoholic”bring “glory to God” in their drinking?"

What does the alcohol do to a persons health?

It impairs brain activity, slows down reactionary time, attacks kidneys, liver, bloodstream, causing cancer, disease, dizziness, loose morality, causing one to forget, relaxes and/or reduces self-control [thus giving up of the will], etc and is one of the major leading causes of death, abuse and misery in the world. Even the smallest amount begins to break down the immune system of the human body [multiple medical research reports can be cited for these facts if needed, though it should be plainly obvious [but for a brief, http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/yourlif....s_N.htm ], also ask those of SADD and MADD].

However, let us also consider further history of the word "wine":

Aristotle ["...(384 BC – 322 BC)[1] was a Greek philosopher and polymath, a student of Plato and teacher of Alexander the Great."[Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle]] said,"...Sweet wine does give off fumes, for it contains fat and behaves like oil. It does not solidify under the influence of cold and it is apt to burn. Really it is not wine at all in spite of its name: for it does not taste like wine and consequently does not inebriate as ordinary wine does. ...​

​

...( Wine is a liquid which raises a difficulty: for it is both liable to evaporation and it also thickens; for instance new wine does. The reason is that the word 'wine' is ambiguous and different 'wines' behave in different ways."- Meteorlogica Book IV [English] - http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/meteorology.4.iv.html​

Merriam-Websters 1828 Dictionary:"MUST, n. [L. mustum; Heb. to ferment.]; New wine; wine pressed from the grapebut notfermented."- http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resour....1828=on

And for many more, consider reading [or checking the references page of

​

[The Bible Wine Question. The Answer To The 'Unanswerable': Or An Exposure Of The Fallacies Of Three Irish Advocates (Professors Watts, Wallace And Murphy) And Eleven Syrian Witnesses; By Frederick Richard Lees]- https://books.google.com/books?id=wG1GAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false​

I can also recommend - Bible Wines, Laws of Fermentation; by William Patton - https://books.google.com/books?id=7AEAAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

We should seriously ask ourselves, "Does the alcohol bring life or death?"

Alcohol is merely a legalized [group morality] "intoxicant", another name for 'drug'. For those who advocate that a little or even 'moderate' [who defines that? and for whom?]use is ok, should also perhaps consider the "health benefits" and results of other such "intoxicants"/"drugs": caffeine [ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012....55.html], nicotine/tobacco[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning], cannabis [ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health....ar.html], etc - all destructive.

This should be sufficient in demonstrating the first half of the "Yes.", but now let us consider in greater detail the second half of the "Yes."answer.

"...The English word "wine" comes from the Proto-Germanic *winam, an early borrowing from the Latin vinum, "wine" or "(grape) vine", itself derived from the Proto-Indo-European stem *win-o- (cf. Hittite: wiyana; Lycian: oino; Ancient Greek: οἶνος oinos; Aeolic Greek: ϝοῖνος woinos).[5][6]..."[Wikipedia, Wine], and therefore, simply means anything 'of the vine', without reference to anything of alcoholic or fermentation content, although it may include such in one of its definitions.​

​

Interesting facts:

Some information for you, if you desire, since you disagree with me, I pray you do not disagree with the hard science, for in so doing, you will shorten your precious life by your choice in refusing it:

"... Alcohol is estimated to be associated with approximately 40,000 deaths per year in the UK and deaths from alcohol related causes are increasing at an alarming rate, having increased at least 8-fold since the 1970s [1]. ...​

​

... It was first described in 1926 that there is an association between fatty changes within the liver due to alcohol and sudden (presumed) arrhythmic death [4,5]. ...​

​

... Alcohol causes arrhythmias during life, including prolongation of the QT interval, which is associated with sudden cardiac death [2]. ..." - US National Library of Medicine; National Institutes of Health-Sudden Unexpected Death in Alcohol Misuse—An Unrecognized Public Health Issue?​

“Alcohol inhibits vitamin absorbency,” he says. “Particularly the absorption of B vitamins which can lead to dementia. It also changes the amount of fat in your blood, which increases your risk of high blood pressure, heart disease, becoming diabetic and creates problems with your pancreas so you don’t produce the enzymes that help you digest food.” These are all slow build conditions that, like liver scarring, you wouldn’t show any outward symptoms until much later on." - "I quit drinking for a month and this is how it affected my liver"​

Only if you love yourself, will this paragraph make any rational sense.

Alcohol brings death. It is the antithesis to food, which is meant for life. Alcohol kills 'germs' (bio/life), and is used as an antiseptic on the outside. Imagine what it does to the inside of the delicate machinery. The very moment it hits the gut, liver, brain, bloodstream, kidneys, all begins to rot, decay, die. Just like smoking for the lungs, etc. Persons would also say that smoking cigars or cigarettes are also for socializing, and even advertise it this way, especially through 'sex' (male/female, and these days all else), the ultimate socializing.

You know the phrase: the dose make the poison? Of course to much from everything is bad for our body. But this is not the theme of the OP. And till know you could me sgow no verse which christians forbit to drink alcohol.
If you agree ore not with what I wrote. The base is the scripture and not our personel view. But I understand your point.

 

[WithinReason]

Elaborate on John 2.

The wedding of Cana. A miniature picture of the wedding of Jesus to His own bride, type to antitype.

Notice that the event was a Wedding. Now in the Bible, a Wedding was not a place for getting intoxicated, but rather was a joyous celebration and new life together.

Jesus is the True Vine (John 15:1). As the True Vine, like the natural vine (1 Corinthians 15:46), it takes of the water of life, and turns it into the fresh juice of the grape, the symbol of the righteousness and glory of Christ Jesus (John 2:11), His perfect life (of which the blood of the grape (Deuteronomy 32:14), symbolizes).

The "good" (morally excellent) "wine" (fruit of the vine; John 2:10) was the fresh juice of the grape without any corruption, even as Jesus' life is without sin. His life and doctrine are pure. Men had seen life and doctrine that was somewhat pure, like Enoch, Daniel, etc, and men had seen doctrine that was somewhat pure, but they all had been mixed with water (representation of men). Jesus pure life and doctrine, which came after all the others (Matthew 21:37), was the truly "good" (Luke 18:18; John 10:11,14).

There were 6 water pots. 6 is the number of men (Genesis 1, etc). Jesus, is the 7th pure vessel (Isaiah 66:20; 1 Thessalonians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:21), which pours out into the others, filling them by His word (water of life), which as the branches are connected through the vine (Himself), becomes the "new wine" (Proverbs 3:10; Isaiah 65:8; Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37-38), the "wine" (juice/blood of the grape) of salvation, rejoicing, gladness, the newness of life without the leaven of sin (1 Corinthians 5:7-8). A gift unto His own bride.

The Governor of the feast would represent the Father (Psalms 22:28). The Groom would represent Jesus (Psalms 19:5; Isaiah 61:10, 62:5; Jeremiah 33:11; Matthew 25:1; Mark 2:20; John 3:29, etc). The bride would represent the Church (Ephesians 5:23, etc) and the guests, the angelic hosts.

Jesus, called the “Bridegroom” by John the Baptist, comes to see His Betrothed [Church], then after many events, He ascends and goes to “prepare a place” for “her” [He ascends to Heaven], just as the Bridegroom would go back to the Father's house [where there are many Mansions] and prepare one of the rooms [a place in New Jerusalem], and would then after a time when all is ready, and in the timing of the Father, He would then “come again” and “receive” “her” unto himself in the Wedding [Jesus Second Advent].

Notice, that where it was asked for wine in the Gospels at the Wedding of Cana, the wedding had already taken place. This then would point to the time when we will actually be with Jesus Christ. When He drinks it with us "new" (not fermented; Matthew 26:29; Mark 14:25) in the Kingdom.

Jesus knew the scriptures, and would not give a gift of fermentation upon such an occasion:

Hab_2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!​

​

Hab 2:16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD'S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.​

 

[Lightskin]

The wedding of Cana. A miniature picture of the wedding of Jesus to His own bride, type to antitype.

Notice that the event was a Wedding. Now in the Bible, a Wedding was not a place for getting intoxicated, but rather was a joyous celebration and new life together.

Jesus is the True Vine (John 15:1). As the True Vine, like the natural vine (1 Corinthians 15:46), it takes of the water of life, and turns it into the fresh juice of the grape, the symbol of the righteousness and glory of Christ Jesus (John 2:11), His perfect life (of which the blood of the grape (Deuteronomy 32:14), symbolizes).

The "good" (morally excellent) "wine" (fruit of the vine; John 2:10) was the fresh juice of the grape without any corruption, even as Jesus' life is without sin. His life and doctrine are pure. Men had seen life and doctrine that was somewhat pure, like Enoch, Daniel, etc, and men had seen doctrine that was somewhat pure, but they all had been mixed with water (representation of men). Jesus pure life and doctrine, which came after all the others (Matthew 21:37), was the truly "good" (Luke 18:18; John 10:11,14).

There were 6 water pots. 6 is the number of men (Genesis 1, etc). Jesus, is the 7th pure vessel (Isaiah 66:20; 1 Thessalonians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:21), which pours out into the others, filling them by His word (water of life), which as the branches are connected through the vine (Himself), becomes the "new wine" (Proverbs 3:10; Isaiah 65:8; Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37-38), the "wine" (juice/blood of the grape) of salvation, rejoicing, gladness, the newness of life without the leaven of sin (1 Corinthians 5:7-8). A gift unto His own bride.

The Governor of the feast would represent the Father (Psalms 22:28). The Groom would represent Jesus (Psalms 19:5; Isaiah 61:10, 62:5; Jeremiah 33:11; Matthew 25:1; Mark 2:20; John 3:29, etc). The bride would represent the Church (Ephesians 5:23, etc) and the guests, the angelic hosts.

Jesus, called the “Bridegroom” by John the Baptist, comes to see His Betrothed [Church], then after many events, He ascends and goes to “prepare a place” for “her” [He ascends to Heaven], just as the Bridegroom would go back to the Father's house [where there are many Mansions] and prepare one of the rooms [a place in New Jerusalem], and would then after a time when all is ready, and in the timing of the Father, He would then “come again” and “receive” “her” unto himself in the Wedding [Jesus Second Advent].

Notice, that where it was asked for wine in the Gospels at the Wedding of Cana, the wedding had already taken place. This then would point to the time when we will actually be with Jesus Christ. When He drinks it with us "new" (not fermented; Matthew 26:29; Mark 14:25) in the Kingdom.

Jesus knew the scriptures, and would not give a gift of fermentation upon such an occasion:

Hab_2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!​

​

Hab 2:16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD'S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.​

So no water into wine?

 

[WithinReason]

So no water into wine?

Wine simply means that which is of the vine (as already shown). So, Jesus turned water into wine (juice of the grape).

Good Wine, Unalcoholic, Unfermented Wine:

[1] Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and [one] saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing [is] in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. Isaiah 65:8

[2] Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries. Nehemiah 13:12

[3] So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. Proverbs 3:10​

These 3 simple texts reveal that the word "wine" is also meant of the simple juice of the Grapes, even ripe from the harvest, right off of the vine, right fresh and invigorating from the press vats, the very firstfruits of the harvest increase even.

 

[bojack]

That was the devil, even as he offered it to Jesus upon the Cross:

Hab_2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!​

​

Deu_32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:​

​

Deu 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.​

​

Mat_27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.​

​

Act_8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.​

​

Mar 15:23 And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.​

​

Psa 69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.​

I took the beer because it was offered not because I wanted one .. I would have refused a drink of hard liquor and have while witnessing ..

 

[WithinReason]

I took the beer because it was offered not because I wanted one

Jesus knew when to say, 'No.'

 

[Lightskin]

Wine simply means that which is of the vine (as already shown). So, Jesus turned water into wine (juice of the grape).

Good Wine, Unalcoholic, Unfermented Wine:

[1] Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and [one] saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing [is] in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. Isaiah 65:8

[2] Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries. Nehemiah 13:12

[3] So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. Proverbs 3:10​

These 3 simple texts reveal that the word "wine" is also meant of the simple juice of the Grapes, even ripe from the harvest, right off of the vine, right fresh and invigorating from the press vats, the very firstfruits of the harvest increase even.

You definitely enjoy twisting scripture in an attempt to push your religiosity upon others.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Bible, vs 'you'

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?​

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:​

1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.​

​

Exo_12:19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.​

​

Exo_34:25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.​

Notice, the doctrine of sin, by nullifying God's commandment through vain traditions:

​

Mat 16:5 And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.​

Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.​

Mat 16:7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.​

Mat 16:8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?​

Mat 16:9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?​

Mat 16:10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?​

Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?​

Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.​

​

Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.​

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.​

Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.​

Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.​

​

Leaven, the disobedience to Truth (God's Law. Psalms 119:142, 151, etc), thus sin:

Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?​

Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.​

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.​

LOL!

perhaps you are the one worshiping in vain with your personal doctrine

I would consider finding another hobby if I were you

thankfully I am not you

you are wasting your time on most folks here and while you think you are doing God a good?

you are not

 

[Locoponydirtman]

It seems that someone is quite the antithesis of his moniker.

 

[John146]

Jesus knew when to say, 'No.'

Agree, I would not want to put anything in my body the Lord calls a mocker. Second, it can cause a brother to stumble. If at anytime I am asked if I drink, as a witness, I need to be able to say no. Saying yes can cause someone to stumble.

Btw, I don’t know anyone who only drinks in moderation. At some point, it’s gone too far.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Alcohol is inherently toxic. By its very nature it is intoxicating in any amount, as per Proverbs 20:1, and other texts cited.

The sooner you lose your phariseeness and realize what the Christ made was wine and not some sort of pseudo-non-alcoholic wine/Welch’s grape juice, the better.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Yes. It was specifically called the "fruit of the vine" in each Gospel, as it represented the pure blood of Jesus Christ, and His pure life. Would you like to consider the context of those verses, and their type in the OT?

Yes it is the fruit of the vine, meaning it came from, guess what? Grapes that grew on a vine. And wine comes from grapes.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I am glad that you agreed, even though it was sarcasm.

Yes, Jesus did make the fruit of the vine, the juice of the grape for the wedding of his relatives.

Yes, Paul, by aid from Luke the physician, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit, told Timothy to drink the fruit of the grape for his stomach ailments.

Did you desire to consider those places in scripture in their context?

That was wine in every instance. The Christ wouldn’t have been called a wine bibber unless He imbibed, you guessed it, wine! He drank wine.

 

[John146]

That was wine in every instance. The Christ wouldn’t have been called a wine bibber unless He imbibed, you guessed it, wine! He drank wine.

What is wine in the following verse? What is strong drink?

Numbers 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

What is wine in the following verse? What is strong drink?

Numbers 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

I like how you start and stop there so you can abuse the scripture. So you like Satan can twist the word of God to fit your agenda.
The Nazarite vow also prevents you from cutting your hair and beard as well.

 

[John146]

I like how you start and stop there so you can abuse the scripture. So you like Satan can twist the word of God to fit your agenda.
The Nazarite vow also prevents you from cutting your hair and beard as well.

No abuse of scripture. Cutting hair has nothing to do with the discussion.
Let’s stick with the verse, what is wine and what is strong drink? Both come from the fruit of the vine.