Italians over 80 'will be left to die'!

[Deuteronomy]

Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by coronavirus

Hardest-hit region drafts new proposals saying who will live and who will die

By
Erica Di Blasi
TURIN
14 March 2020 • 4:38pm

Coronavirus victims in Italy will be denied access to intensive care if they are aged 80 or more or in poor health should pressure on beds increase, a document prepared by a crisis management unit in Turin proposes.

Some patients denied intensive care will in effect be left to die, doctors fear.

The unit has drawn up a protocol, seen by The Telegraph, that will determine which patients receive treatment in intensive care and which do not if there are insufficient spaces. Intensive care capacity is running short in Italy as the coronavirus continues to spread.

The document, produced by the civil protection department of the Piedmont region, one of those hardest hit, says: "The criteria for access to intensive therapy in cases of emergency must include age of less than 80 or a score on the Charlson comorbidity Index [which indicates how many other medical conditions the patient has] of less than 5."

The ability of the patient to recover from resuscitation will also be considered.

One doctor said: "[Who lives and who dies] is decided by age and by the [patient's] health conditions. This is how it is in a war."

~https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ill-left-die-country-overwhelmed-coronavirus/

 

[Whispered]

Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by coronavirus

Hardest-hit region drafts new proposals saying who will live and who will die

By
Erica Di Blasi
TURIN
14 March 2020 • 4:38pm

Coronavirus victims in Italy will be denied access to intensive care if they are aged 80 or more or in poor health should pressure on beds increase, a document prepared by a crisis management unit in Turin proposes.

Some patients denied intensive care will in effect be left to die, doctors fear.

The unit has drawn up a protocol, seen by The Telegraph, that will determine which patients receive treatment in intensive care and which do not if there are insufficient spaces. Intensive care capacity is running short in Italy as the coronavirus continues to spread.

The document, produced by the civil protection department of the Piedmont region, one of those hardest hit, says: "The criteria for access to intensive therapy in cases of emergency must include age of less than 80 or a score on the Charlson comorbidity Index [which indicates how many other medical conditions the patient has] of less than 5."

The ability of the patient to recover from resuscitation will also be considered.

One doctor said: "[Who lives and who dies] is decided by age and by the [patient's] health conditions. This is how it is in a war."

~https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ill-left-die-country-overwhelmed-coronavirus/

"This is how it is in a war." Yes, it is called, Triage.
What is deeply troubling is for some reason south Korea is reportedly more on top of this than even the U.S.. How does this happen?

God be with the people of Italy.
Where's the Vatican bank in all this? If it is a matter of funding, open the vaults and save lives!

 

[Wayne_Gearing]

The Vatican is very quiet

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

My wife work with the elderly in South Africa and that is the mentality of the hospitals here even if you don't have the Corona virus. They tell the old people to go home and die because they did have a long life

 

[Vagabond]

I figure I will get attacked by this view but I'll say it anyway. The bible says that a generation is 70 years, with strength 80. People around that age are already over the average life expectancy. If we are to choose between younger people with more life to live than people who are in their final years, the choice should be obvious. Would we like to save everyone? Sure. But if it comes down to resources , we need to keep the younger people alive.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I figure I will get attacked by this view but I'll say it anyway. The bible says that a generation is 70 years, with strength 80. People around that age are already over the average life expectancy. If we are to choose between younger people with more life to live than people who are in their final years, the choice should be obvious. Would we like to save everyone? Sure. But if it comes down to resources , we need to keep the younger people alive.

The Bible also teach us to look after the elderly... so yeah

 

[JamOn]

Boy the scare and fear tactics come out of the woodwork.

this is not happening yet it is a worse case scenario IF it comes down to it, it might but it’s not happening right now, so it is wise not to make threads that make it look like it is happening right now it is not.

if anyone reads the whole article, it is a proposed document If they get to that point Italy is not there yet all people are still being treated, let’s keep the hope alive shall we.


The document says: "The growth of the current epidemic makes it likely that a point of imbalance between the clinical needs of patients with COVID-19 and the effective availability of intensive resources will be reached.

"Should it become impossible to provide all patients with intensive care services, it will be necessary to apply criteria for access to intensive treatment, which depends on the limited resources available."

It adds: "The criteria set out guidelines if the situation becomes of such an exceptional nature as to make the therapeutic choices on the individual case dependent on the availability of resources, forcing [hospitals] to focus on those cases in which the cost/benefit ratio is more favorable for clinical treatment."

 

[EleventhHour]

So sad... and what is more frustrating is how people are in denial.

Stating they are just going to live their lives, going here and there moaning about their personal freedoms and shirk when told it is important to act responsible because of those more fragile and vulnerable in our communities.

 

[JamOn]

It is sad Christians are giving the half truth on this, yes a document has been proposed but it is not in effect yet.

 

[EleventhHour]

Boy the scare and fear tactics come out of the woodwork.

this is not happening yet it is a worse case scenario IF it comes down to it, it might but it’s not happening right now, so it is wise not to make threads that looks like it is happening right now it is not.

if anyone reads the whole article, it is a proposed document If they get to that point Italy is not there yet all people are still being treated, let’s keep the hope alive shall we.


The document says: "The growth of the current epidemic makes it likely that a point of imbalance between the clinical needs of patients with COVID-19 and the effective availability of intensive resources will be reached.

"Should it become impossible to provide all patients with intensive care services, it will be necessary to apply criteria for access to intensive treatment, which depends on the limited resources available."

It adds: "The criteria set out guidelines if the situation becomes of such an exceptional nature as to make the therapeutic choices on the individual case dependent on the availability of resources, forcing [hospitals] to focus on those cases in which the cost/benefit ratio is more favorable for clinical treatment."

Wrong, this been happening in Italy for a month.
This article is behind the times of the reality that has existed for several weeks.

Their system was overloaded at the first few hundred cases.

People who were not able to be treated were refused entry into the hospital and sent back home to die alone, family members not even allowed to be with them.

People where I live have been refused treatment because all the isolation rooms were full and someone with an infectious disease cannot sit in a hallway of a hospital.
Start dealing with the reality of this situation.

 

[EleventhHour]

It sad Christians are giving the half truth on this, yes a document has been proposed but it is not in effect yet.

Wrong again.

Doctors were making these decisions on the spot with no formal guidelines ... the only difference now is they have made it more explicit and in writing.

 

[JamOn]

[

Wrong, this been happening in Italy for a month.
This article is behind the times of the reality that has existed for several weeks.

Their system was overloaded at the first few hundred cases.

People who were not able to be treated were refused entry into the hospital and sent back home to die alone, family members not even allowed to be with them.

People where I live have been refused treatment because all the isolation rooms were full and someone with an infectious disease cannot sit in a hallway of a hospital.
Start dealing with the reality of this situation.

do you got any info a site that says Italy has begun to use that document now today.

at this point just saying it’s in full swing isn’t good enough your going to have to prove they are not treating 80 and above today

 

[JamOn]

Wrong again.

Doctors were making these decisions on the spot with no formal guidelines ... the only difference now is they have made it more explicit and in writing.

Show me where you got your info? that it has begun

 

[JamOn]

At the bottom of the article this is written read closely.


The criteria relate only to access to intensive care - those who do not get access to intensive care will still receive all the treatment possible.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Show me where you got your info? that it has begun

JamOn, one of the girls working with me knows a doctor in Italy. Apparently the doctors there know from looking at a patient if he/she will make it or not. If they feel they won't make it, they don't get treated... (can't say if this is true or not)

 

[EleventhHour]

[


do you got any info a site that says Italy has begun to use that document now today.

at this point just saying it’s in full swing isn’t good enough your going to have to prove they are not treating 80 and above today

I am of Italian descent, I have family in Milan.
My sister has in-laws that are doctors in Italy, we know the situation.
If you ever have been to Italy you will know that they are basically like a developing nation, very poor infrastructure, unorganized and limited medical resources.

 

[EleventhHour]

JamOn, one of the girls working with me knows a doctor in Italy. Apparently the doctors there know from looking at a patient if he/she will make it or not. If they feel they won't make it, they don't get treated... (can't say if this is true or not)

Thank you, I have been talking to @JamOn for days he is in denial.

 

[JamOn]

JamOn, one of the girls working with me knows a doctor in Italy. Apparently the doctors there know from looking at a patient if he/she will make it or not. If they feel they won't make it, they don't get treated... (can't say if this is true or not)

did you read the article the whole article, it is only for intensive care, people will still get care if they are in their 80’s and above if they have to send them home they will not be just abandoned.

 

[JamOn]

I am of Italian descent, I have family in Milan.
My sister has in-laws that are doctors in Italy, we know the situation.
If you ever have been to Italy you will know that they are basically like a developing nation, very poor infrastructure, unorganized and limited medical resources.

you are acting like they will not be treated from home, that is it not what the article is about people being left to die abandoned period

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

did you read the article the whole article, it is only for intensive care, people will still get care that are in their 80’s and above if they have to send them home they will not be just abandoned.

Look buddy, I hear you. I am telling you what I have been told.

I have also heard that the statistics about the virus are sugar coated so that people don't go into a frenzy.