The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

[Jackson123]

Jackson, you really do lack understanding.
Tribulation, Jesus AND Rapture - millennium,

Tribulation > second coming and rapture > 1000 years kingdom is postrib

But pretrib

Second coming and rapture. > tribulation. > third coming > 1000 year kingdom

 

[r1xlx]

Evidently you (a) either do not know what is in Scripture, (b) do not believe the Bible, or (c) prefer to manufacture your own theology.

LUKE 16: THE DEAD REMEMBER FULL WELL WHAT THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED IN THIS LIFE
27 Then he [the Rich Man] said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Oh my, another cultist.
Luke 16 is obviously a parable.

 

[r1xlx]

Tribulation > second coming and rapture > 1000 years kingdom is postrib

But pretrib

Second coming and rapture. > tribulation. > third coming > 1000 year kingdom

Jackson, you are either being deliberatly ignorant or deliberately working for Satan. I'm not sure which.
But if Jesus AND RApture come at same time it is obviously last minute Trib?

 

[garee]

You should pray for the gift of interpretation so you know what you are talking about.

If we are believers we have the gift of interpretation so we can know what him not seen is talking about .Its the better thing that accompanied salvation.. It is the work of God working in us that we can believe Its is how we known him and experienced his first labor of love working in us to both will, giving us a desire, and empowering us to do the good good work. And as a better thing that accompanies our salvation he promises to remember the good works we do offer towards his name .

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.Hebrews 6:9-10

It becomes then. How can we hear him walking by faith the unseen and obey the loving commandment to study in order the hear Him and therefore as we are honored as a kingdom of priest, men an woman alike . . . .the privilege to seek His approval.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Absolutely]

You're all wrong.
On dying all thoughts perish.
If the soul is us it would know us but as its thoughts are dead it coudln't.
Therefore on dying our bodies turn to dust and all our thoughts abd knwledge cease to exist.
Maybe you should try understand that when Jesus said every hair on our heads is numbered he was actually meaning GOD remembers every details of us - so He knows those predestined to live eternally?
You really need to use KJV Study Bibles s you can quickly put all the pieces together.

Yeah we can all see the rich man,lazareth,and abraham all lost consciousness upon death.

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson, you are either being deliberatly ignorant or deliberately working for Satan. I'm not sure which.
But if Jesus AND RApture come at same time it is obviously last minute Trib?

That mean you believe in post trib

I am not believe Pre trib either.

I wrote what Pretrib believe not what I believe.

 

[Absolutely]

you seem to have difficulty with reading the Bible in general.

Anyone with such slipperiness and snippy little comebacks is hiding. God is plainspoken not cunning and mental with a hatred of the brethren.

Get real or stop wasting everyone's time

 

[garee]

If it was true that our thoughts cease to exist when our bodies die, then how do you explain the rich man and Lazarus dying but their spirits being conscious and aware in hades? What about the martyrs under the altar at the opening of the 5th seal who were having a conversation with the Lord? And what about Samuel coming up from Sheol to speak to king Saul and Moses and Elijah speaking with Jesus on the mountain where He was transfigured? And what about Jesus' promise to the thief who was crucified next to Him? The man said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." How could Jesus make that promise to him when they both died that same day? The answer is, because after the death of their bodies, their spirits departed and went down to the place of comfort in Sheol/Hades where Abraham and Lazarus were.

Not only are the spirits of the righteous conscious and aware after the death of the body, but the spirits of the wicked are also conscious and aware after death. This is one of the truths found in the event of the rich man and Lazarus. The context states that both men died, but their spirits where found down in Sheol/Hades. The rich man was having a conversation with Abraham with Lazarus was at his side. Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were on the side of comfort, while the rich man and all the other who died without faith were on the other side of the chasm in torment in flame.And consider the following:

==============================================
"And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.

"Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:"

"Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
==============================================

Regarding the first scripture, those spoken of "under the earth" is referring to the wicked in Hades. It would be pointless to mention those who are unworthy to open the scroll under the earth if they didn't exist.

Regarding the second scripture, it would be pretty difficult for those under the earth to sing if they no longer existed.

Likewise, it would be impossible for those under the earth to bow their knee and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord if they no longer existed.

The KJV is not the issue, it is the erroneous interpretations of the expositors. Instead of honestly considering the other scriptures that demonstrate the conscious existence of the spirit after death, they use existing apologetics or create new ones in order to circumvent the truth.

It would seem you are turning things upside down . The end of the matter (Revelation 5) is no the man of corrupted flesh was found worthy as the Good Master. We are to call no man on earth Teacher, Rabbi Master. In that way one is our Master not seen .One is our Father not seen. Call neither any man Master or Father on earth.

After hearing the rebuke of worshiping the flesh of the Son of man, Jesus. It was like he never heard a word the first time and walked away in unbelief. . .having repeated the error. Just like the parable in Luke 16.

Mark 10:17-20 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

The seals cannot be opened by any man .God is not a man as us. One way to hear God. As it is written

Mathew 23: 8-10 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.




Revelation 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

 

[Absolutely]

If it was true that our thoughts cease to exist when our bodies die, then how do you explain the rich man and Lazarus dying but their spirits being conscious and aware in hades? What about the martyrs under the altar at the opening of the 5th seal who were having a conversation with the Lord? And what about Samuel coming up from Sheol to speak to king Saul and Moses and Elijah speaking with Jesus on the mountain where He was transfigured? And what about Jesus' promise to the thief who was crucified next to Him? The man said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." How could Jesus make that promise to him when they both died that same day? The answer is, because after the death of their bodies, their spirits departed and went down to the place of comfort in Sheol/Hades where Abraham and Lazarus were.

Not only are the spirits of the righteous conscious and aware after the death of the body, but the spirits of the wicked are also conscious and aware after death. This is one of the truths found in the event of the rich man and Lazarus. The context states that both men died, but their spirits where found down in Sheol/Hades. The rich man was having a conversation with Abraham with Lazarus was at his side. Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were on the side of comfort, while the rich man and all the other who died without faith were on the other side of the chasm in torment in flame.And consider the following:

==============================================
"And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.

"Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:"

"Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
==============================================

Regarding the first scripture, those spoken of "under the earth" is referring to the wicked in Hades. It would be pointless to mention those who are unworthy to open the scroll under the earth if they didn't exist.

Regarding the second scripture, it would be pretty difficult for those under the earth to sing if they no longer existed.

Likewise, it would be impossible for those under the earth to bow their knee and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord if they no longer existed.

The KJV is not the issue, it is the erroneous interpretations of the expositors. Instead of honestly considering the other scriptures that demonstrate the conscious existence of the spirit after death, they use existing apologetics or create new ones in order to circumvent the truth.

Lol ...I saw you covered this before I did,but we both invoked the same verses to r1's hodge podge.

 

[Absolutely]

Pretrib

Second coming > tribulation > third trcoming for 1000 kingdom

I never read If there is third coming in the bible

Rev 14 would then be a real problem since Jesus comes for ripe fruit DURING the gt.
There is no such thing as a postrib rapture.
No verses at all to support it.
Try and find one

 

[Absolutely]

you seem to have difficulty with reading the Bible in general.

Most everyone can see he is not stating his position.

You read stuff before you post?

Maybe cut out the facade that you know what you are talking about.

 

[Absolutely]

So you believe Jesus come, than tribulation.

So you believe the end time is not second coming, am I correct?

Again rev 14 destroys the "there ain't no 3rd coming" silliness

 

[r1xlx]

Most everyone can see he is not stating his position.

You read stuff before you post?

Maybe cut out the facade that you know what you are talking about.

I know a darn sight more than you ever will. Get a Study Bible and start learning.

 

[Absolutely]

I could see that the gift of speaking in different languages could be a great gift.

I hope that this gift is still available.

But not babbling incoherently. I have no use for that.

And neither do I believe that some are in an inferior position and cannot pray effectively to God while some charismatic can. In other words, I am fine with the left side. I am not fine with the right side. View attachment 212742

View attachment 212742

Paul babbled incoherantly.

According to the bible

 

[Absolutely]

I know a darn sight more than you ever will. Get a Study Bible and start learning.

Lol
Keep acting like you do.
I am fine with it

 

[Absolutely]

CONTEXT! CONTEXT! CONTEXT! Luke 16 is a parable! CONTEXT! CONTEXT! CONTEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read it again.
Does not follow the structure of a parable.

 

[AmanII]

The story of the development of pre-tribulationism as we know it today is a tangled one. From its inception in the early 1800s, there has been a deliberate attempt to cover up its origins. This has been perpetrated along two lines of ‘revisionism.’ One was to hide the real origin of pre-tribulationism in 19th century Scotland, and attribute it to John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. The other has been a recent attempt to selectively quote and misrepresent ancient Christian documents to make it appear early Christians were pre-trib. The purpose of this article is to document a timeline of the major events in the development of this relatively new prophetic viewpoint. Sometime in June of 1830 and out of the spectacle of alleged latter-day Holy Spirit outpouring in Scotland and England, the first documented evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture articulated in the form of a letter written by Margaret MacDonald, sister of James and George MacDonald of Port Glasgow. In March or April of 1830, after being ill and bed-ridden for about 18 months, Margaret claimed to have seen a series of visions of the coming of the Lord. She wrote down these visions and sent a copy to Edward Irving who pastored a Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) congregation in London. A month later Irving claimed in a private letter that Margaret’s visions had a huge impact on him. The outstanding feature of Margaret’s visions was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on an elite group within the Church, combined with a secret rapture before the revealing of the Antichrist. She saw only these “Spirit filled” Christians “taken” to be with the Lord, while the rest of the Church without this experience would be left to be purged in the tribulation.
Here is the letter Margaret MacDonald wrote to Edward Irving.
“It was first the awful state of the land that was pressed upon me. I saw the blindness and infatuation of the people to be very great. I felt the cry of Liberty just to be the hiss of the serpent, to drown them in perdition. It was just `no God.’ I repeated the words, Now there is distress of nations, with perplexity, the seas and the waves roaring, men’s hearts failing them for fear - now look out for the sign of the Son of man. Here I was made to stop and cry out. 0 it is not known what the sign of the Son of man
is; the people of God think they are waiting, but they know not what it is. I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light I saw it was just the Lord himself descending from Heaven with a shout, just the glorified man. even Jesus; but that all must, as Stephen was, be filled with the Holy Ghost, that they might look up, and see the brightness of the Father’s glory. I saw the error to be, that men think that it will be something seen by the natural eye; but ’tis spiritual discernment that is needed, the eye of God in his people. Many passages were revealed, in a light in which I had not before seen them. I repeated, "Now is the kingdom of Heaven like unto ten virgins, who went forth to meet the Bridegroom, five wise and five foolish; they that were foolish took their lamps, but took no oil with them; but they that were wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.’ “But be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is; and be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit.” This was the oil the wise virgins took in their vessels - this is the light to be kept burning - the light of God - that we may discern that which cometh not with observation to the natural eye. Only those who have the light of God within them will see the sign of his appearance. No need to follow them who say, see here, or see there, for his day shall be as the lightning to those in whom the living Christ is. ’Tis Christ in us that will lift us up - he is the light - ‘tis only those that are alive in him that will be caught up to meet him in the air. I saw that we must be in the Spirit, that we might see spiritual things. John was in the Spirit, when he saw a throne set in Heaven. - But I saw that the glory of the ministration of the Spirit had not been known. I repeated frequently, but the spiritual temple must and shall be reared, and the fullness of Christ be poured into his body, and then shall we be caught up to meet him. Oh none will be counted worthy of this calling but his body, which is the church, and which must be a candlestick all of gold. I often said, Oh the glorious in breaking of God which is now about to burst on this earth; Oh the glorious temple which is now about to be reared, the bride adorned for her husband; and Oh what a holy, holy bride she must be, to be prepared for such a glorious bridegroom. I said, Now shall the people of God have to do with realities - now shall the glorious mystery of God in our nature be known - now shall it be known what it is for man to be glorified. I felt that the revelation of Jesus Christ had yet to be opened up - it is not knowledge about God that it contains, but it is an entering into God - I saw that there was a glorious breaking in of God to be. I felt as Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were, the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left, because the one has the light of God within while the other cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived. - This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will be shaken to the very centre. The enemy will try to shake in everything we have believed - But the trial of real faith will be found to honor and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold I frequently said that night, and often since, now shall the awful sight of a false Christ be seen on this earth, and nothing but the living Christ in us can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive - or it is with all deceivableness of unrighteousness he will work - he will have a counterpart for every part of
God’s truth and an imitation for every work of the Spirit. The Spirit must and will be poured out on the church, that she may be purified and filled with God - and just in proportion as the Spirit of God works, so will he when our Lord anoints men with power, so will he. This is particularly the nature of the trial, through which those are to pass who will be counted
worthy to stand before the Son of man. There will be outward trial too, but `tis principally temptation. It is brought on by the outpouring of the Spirit, and will just increase in proportion as the Spirit is poured out. The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept. I frequently said, Oh be filled with the Spirit - have the light of God in you, that you may detect Satan - be full of eyes within - be clay in the hands of the potter - submit to be filled, filled with God This will build the temple. It is not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord. This will fit us to enter into the marriage supper of the lamb. I saw It to be the will of God that all should be filled. But what hindered the real life of God from being received by his people was their turning from Jesus who is the way to the Father. They were not entering in by the door. For he is faithful who hath said, by me if any man enter in he shall find pasture. They were passing the cross, through which every drop of the Spirit of God flows to us. All power that comes not through the blood of Christ is not of God. When I say, they are looking from the cross, I feel that there is much in it - they turn from the blood of the Lamb, by which we overcome, and in which our robes are washed and made white. There are low views of God’s holiness, and ceasing to condemn sin in the flesh, and a looking from him who humbled himself, and made himself of no reputation. Oh! it is needed, much needed at present, a leading back to the cross, I saw that night,
and often since, that there will be an outpouring of the Spirit on the body, such as has not been, a baptism of fire, that all the dross may be put away. Oh there must and will be such an indwelling of the living God as has not been - the servants of God sealed in their foreheads - great conformity to Jesus - his holy image seen in his people just the bride made comely, by his comeliness put upon her. This is what we are at present made to pray much for, that speedily we may all be made ready to meet our Lord in the air - and it will be. Jesus wants his bride. His desire is toward us. He that shall come, will come, and will not tarry. Amen and Amen. Even so come Lord Jesus.”

You said: The trial of the Church is from Antichrist.
Has the Antichrist been identified by the way?

 

[Nehemiah6]

He uses the KJV to formulate his theories.

Stupidity is not the fault of the King James Bible.

 

[Jackson123]

Rev 14 would then be a real problem since Jesus comes for ripe fruit DURING the gt.
There is no such thing as a postrib rapture.
No verses at all to support it.
Try and find one

So wich you believe

A. Rapture > tribulation > second coming where Jesus reign for 1000 years

B. Rapture and second coming in the same time > tribulation > third coming where Jesus reign for 1000 years

C. Or what is your believe the order Will be.

The verse second coming after tribulation is

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[JohnR7]

He can equip them for their unpaid service.

The churches that teach it is the pastor's job to equip the saint for ministry are the churches that are the quickest to put gag orders on people that they feel depart from their prescribed doctrine and beliefs. They want you to repeat their teaching verbatim. Then they claim they do this because they do not want people to misrepresent the church and what the church believes.