Has the second coming occurred already?

[7seasrekeyed]

I'm wondering why we need prophets if it's all over with anyway?

shrugs and takes the dogs for a walk

 

[garee]

I'm wondering why we need prophets if it's all over with anyway?

shrugs and takes the dogs for a walk

The faith that comes from hearing God called prophecy must be exercised .Like taking a dog for a walk .

 

[JeremiahsCup]

It's pretty absurd to think the Apocalypse all ready happened. Don't worry, you will not be able to miss the second coming of Lord Jesus. Everyone that ever lived will be coming back and every knee shall be made to bow and every tongue will be made to confess that Jesus is the Lord.

 

[Jimbone]

My question would be, where is the evidence of this? It’s seems not long after the Church was founded, problems arose. Almost 2000 years later we have many different Churches(denominations) that have perverted and strayed from Christ’s teachings. Could it be that the Olivet Discourse was foreshadowing of a future event? When will the new heaven and new earth come? What about the 3rd temple? Restoration of Israel? Millennial Kingdom?

We're not to worry about all that, we are to make disciples of all nations. You're not called to know everything you just asked, we're told to testify of our risen and victorious King!!!!

When will the new heaven and new earth come? When He wills and the 3 measures of flour are leavened and the mustard seed has grown into the full tree. Not overnight. What about the 3rd temple? I asked about it again in this thread with no answer from the biggest pre-trib person on here, the "3rd temple" is the biggest evidence all this stuff CAN'T take place in the future unless scripture changes, I can go more into this if you want, but God hasn't commanded a 3rd temple built, so it can not be desolated unless scripture is still open and God orders it built. If you have a way around this problem in order for "GOD'S" temple to be desecrated. If men build it then it's just a building. Restoration of Israel? Israel is ly restored now with His kingdom on earth spiritual Israel . Millennial Kingdom? Is now and Jesus the King is seated at the right hand of the Father ruling until all enemies are made a footstool for His feet.

I tried to answer your questions so please try to answer a few of mine,
Has God commanded men to build a third temple yet? What would be the purpose of a third temple when that age was clearly ended, and what His temple pointed to (Jesus and the redemption of the world) has already been come to pass and been fulfilled? If not this of course would mean that scripture is still open right? Do you believe that?

 

[Jimbone]

Seems like you are spiritualizing Scripture instead of taking it literally. 2 Corinthians 5 is a reference to the believer who has been placed in Christ. Christ has not literally returned to earth to set up His kingdom in Jerusalem and place the government upon His shoulders.

Are you sure? Are you not reborn into His kingdom? What did He say?
Luke 17:20-21
When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

Doesn't sound much like what you're waiting for, but a lot like what we're talking about. HMMM

 

[Jackson123]

Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?

No, If It is every body see Jesus oN the air.
Rev1:7

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Aerials1978]

We're not to worry about all that, we are to make disciples of all nations. You're not called to know everything you just asked, we're told to testify of our risen and victorious King!!!!

When will the new heaven and new earth come? When He wills and the 3 measures of flour are leavened and the mustard seed has grown into the full tree. Not overnight. What about the 3rd temple? I asked about it again in this thread with no answer from the biggest pre-trib person on here, the "3rd temple" is the biggest evidence all this stuff CAN'T take place in the future unless scripture changes, I can go more into this if you want, but God hasn't commanded a 3rd temple built, so it can not be desolated unless scripture is still open and God orders it built. If you have a way around this problem in order for "GOD'S" temple to be desecrated. If men build it then it's just a building. Restoration of Israel? Israel is ly restored now with His kingdom on earth spiritual Israel . Millennial Kingdom? Is now and Jesus the King is seated at the right hand of the Father ruling until all enemies are made a footstool for His feet.

I tried to answer your questions so please try to answer a few of mine,
Has God commanded men to build a third temple yet? What would be the purpose of a third temple when that age was clearly ended, and what His temple pointed to (Jesus and the redemption of the world) has already been come to pass and been fulfilled? If not this of course would mean that scripture is still open right? Do you believe that?

I can only go by the vision Ezekiel had of the 3rd temple and what is stated in Revelation. I do know that in Jewish orthodoxy, the third Temple has to be built before the Messiah comes. Does this have anything to do with Christ’s 2 coming? Maybe, but I really don’t know. What I do know is there are Levitical priests who have the plans drawn up and all of the Temple items are made. Really does have to make one wonder.

 

[Jimbone]

I can only go by the vision Ezekiel had of the 3rd temple and what is stated in Revelation. I do know that in Jewish orthodoxy, the third Temple has to be built before the Messiah comes. Does this have anything to do with Christ’s 2 coming? Maybe, but I really don’t know. What I do know is there are Levitical priests who have the plans drawn up and all of the Temple items are made. Really does have to make one wonder.

Yea but again unless God didn't really mean it this last time when He judges the covenant breakers any burned everything to do with that priesthood from the earth, those "priest" can have whatever they want drawn up, but if God doesn't command it built then it's no more special than the toy Lego house I built at 10. Again if there is no "God's temple" on earth then there is nothing to desolate. And if you suggest He will order it build leaves the necessity that scripture has to still be open, and that's a WHOLE NEW can of worms.

 

[Aerials1978]

Yea but again unless God didn't really mean it this last time when He judges the covenant breakers any burned everything to do with that priesthood from the earth, those "priest" can have whatever they want drawn up, but if God doesn't command it built then it's no more special than the toy Lego house I built at 10. Again if there is no "God's temple" on earth then there is nothing to desolate. And if you suggest He will order it build leaves the necessity that scripture has to still be open, and that's a WHOLE NEW can of worms.

What do you think Ezekiels vision was based on? If Revelation is true, a third Temple must be build in order for scripture to be fulfilled.

 

[John146]

Are you sure? Are you not reborn into His kingdom? What did He say?
Luke 17:20-21
When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

Doesn't sound much like what you're waiting for, but a lot like what we're talking about. HMMM

You’re speaking of the kingdom of God, the spiritual kingdom that lives within the believer. The kingdom of Israel is the promised physical kingdom on earth. It’s the promise of Israel’s kingdom restored. Both were at hand in Jesus’ day. The kingdom of God continued and the restoration of Israel’s kingdom was postponed.

 

[Blade]

Seems when the world hears the gospel the end will come. Its a fact that the word has seemed to reach the world yet.. not every nation has heard.. so close. Someone else's job huh

To me I see the word as.. God to Israel.. to then take this word to the world. They did not. God found someone else (no replacement) to make them jealous. I can find some prophesy's that have not happen yet. Then Matt then NT and Rev.

Seems I've missed ALLOT! The Church going up.. missed it. Christ coming with all His holy angels.. missed it. The split of sheep and goats.... missed it PRAISE GOD!

Paul must be saying or at least thinking "really? Thats still going around?"

Thinking and it makes me laugh. We have a GOD in us yes? Do we really truly believe this? yet.. seems we just can't ask Him huh. The song He walks with us talks with us... I guess we should just sing "He walks with us and walks with us" He talks.. Hes real. Ask Him. YES your going to have to pray seek and wait on Him. WHY at times He answers right away and other times you must seek and pray but.. He ALWAYS answers. The sweet holy Spirit is hear for a reason. With us for ever and the word even says "the holy spirit said"..

 

[Dino246]

What do you think Ezekiels vision was based on? If Revelation is true, a third Temple must be build in order for scripture to be fulfilled.

Revelation is indeed true, but the interpretation of it that some hold may not be.

 

[Jimbone]

You’re speaking of the kingdom of God, the spiritual kingdom that lives within the believer. The kingdom of Israel is the promised physical kingdom on earth. It’s the promise of Israel’s kingdom restored. Both were at hand in Jesus’ day. The kingdom of God continued and the restoration of Israel’s kingdom was postponed.

Is that not what He said it would be? And it would know no end until everything was under Him.

This is the problem I see here, when you say "The kingdom of God continued and the restoration of Israel’s kingdom was postponed." I ask according to what? Where are we told it would be postponed? See Jesus told them over and over that the generation would not pass away until these thing happen, that they wouldn't go to every town before it happen, even on the way to the cross told the daughters of Israel "do not weep for me, weep foe your children" because He knew what was coming. Even more than that it happen, we have historical record of this judgment that ended the age, that can't return until He orders His temple build. Has He?

I mean postponed? please support that assertion because I've only ever seen it on charts and with scripture pulled out of context and put together in a way that distorts what was being said in context for both verses used to make it mean what's wanted.

Brother I so bad hope this reads to you that I'm just sharing how I see it and not trying to "bash", or even act as if I'm just trying to "teach something". I am just trying to share where He has brought me in my walk, and to listen (or read) to where He has you. I believe that's what we're commanded to do, and what sharpens us and draws us closer to Him, closer to the Truth. I would like to add that I do appreciate the way you're respond as well, thank you.

 

[Jimbone]

What do you think Ezekiels vision was based on? If Revelation is true, a third Temple must be build in order for scripture to be fulfilled.

I agree that in order for this interpretation to be true a third temple must be built. The "rub" is that it HAS to be God's temple. Besides the fact that's a step backwards in everything He's done, what purpose would it serve to rebuilt a temple that pointed to Jesus coming and His redeeming creation, that has all been fulfilled completely. (I'm speaking of salvation specifically here) It's honestly illogical. So now here we are believing scripture is closed, Jesus has all victory and through Him we can be spiritually resurrected and reconciled to our Creator as we were created to be, right? We can all agree here I pray, and our King said on that cross
"It is finished"
Right? I believe that. See but Jesus wasn't only bringing salvation, He was also bringing judgement and ending the age, that to this day is gone.
But now if we have to have a 3rd temple, and I haven't read where He's ordered us to build Him a house to dwell in, after Jesus. Why does God's need this temple? Just so there's something to desolate? Are you starting to see my point here? This is not a small thing and so far I get ignored when I ask it. (not by you, just really for the most part no response so far) So I truly appreciate the conversation about it. I have to be honest I never even considered this before, but think about it, even if some Jews build a temple does not make it Gods, and it is clearly God's temple the AOD takes places in, and that age is over forever and the very idea of another temple built on top of Jesus makes no logical sense, to me. I sincerely thank you for engaging me on this topic, an important topic generally.

 

[John146]

Is that not what He said it would be? And it would know no end until everything was under Him.

This is the problem I see here, when you say "The kingdom of God continued and the restoration of Israel’s kingdom was postponed." I ask according to what? Where are we told it would be postponed? See Jesus told them over and over that the generation would not pass away until these thing happen, that they wouldn't go to every town before it happen, even on the way to the cross told the daughters of Israel "do not weep for me, weep foe your children" because He knew what was coming. Even more than that it happen, we have historical record of this judgment that ended the age, that can't return until He orders His temple build. Has He?

I mean postponed? please support that assertion because I've only ever seen it on charts and with scripture pulled out of context and put together in a way that distorts what was being said in context for both verses used to make it mean what's wanted.

Brother I so bad hope this reads to you that I'm just sharing how I see it and not trying to "bash", or even act as if I'm just trying to "teach something". I am just trying to share where He has brought me in my walk, and to listen (or read) to where He has you. I believe that's what we're commanded to do, and what sharpens us and draws us closer to Him, closer to the Truth. I would like to add that I do appreciate the way you're respond as well, thank you.

Before the Lord's ascension, the disciples asked the question, because the kingdom of Israel had not been restored yet as promised.

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

 

[Jimbone]

Before the Lord's ascension, the disciples asked the question, because the kingdom of Israel had not been restored yet as promised.

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

I can agree with this, and honestly think we are called to make disciples of ALL nations and not to worry ourselves about these things, but the point I'm bring up has nothing to do with the timing or when as far as predicting it, I am just pointing out the HUGE logical hole even the idea of another true temple in the futurist view of these things brings. I think it shatters the whole notion, I just see so many problems with this view now, and still haven't heard them addressed at all.

Also you didn't give me anything about the judgement being postponed.

I do agree with you so much that time would be better spent proclaiming His word to the lost, but do believe His kingdom has come, I'm in it, you still seem to be waiting for a kingdom you can point to and say "there it is" just like the Jews that didn't believe. Just a last thought.

 

[Aerials1978]

I agree that in order for this interpretation to be true a third temple must be built. The "rub" is that it HAS to be God's temple. Besides the fact that's a step backwards in everything He's done, what purpose would it serve to rebuilt a temple that pointed to Jesus coming and His redeeming creation, that has all been fulfilled completely. (I'm speaking of salvation specifically here) It's honestly illogical. So now here we are believing scripture is closed, Jesus has all victory and through Him we can be spiritually resurrected and reconciled to our Creator as we were created to be, right? We can all agree here I pray, and our King said on that cross
"It is finished"
Right? I believe that. See but Jesus wasn't only bringing salvation, He was also bringing judgement and ending the age, that to this day is gone.
But now if we have to have a 3rd temple, and I haven't read where He's ordered us to build Him a house to dwell in, after Jesus. Why does God's need this temple? Just so there's something to desolate? Are you starting to see my point here? This is not a small thing and so far I get ignored when I ask it. (not by you, just really for the most part no response so far) So I truly appreciate the conversation about it. I have to be honest I never even considered this before, but think about it, even if some Jews build a temple does not make it Gods, and it is clearly God's temple the AOD takes places in, and that age is over forever and the very idea of another temple built on top of Jesus makes no logical sense, to me. I sincerely thank you for engaging me on this topic, an important topic generally.

The 3rd Temple could be symbolic. As the nations rage war against Israel, the temple would be seen as an affront to the Beasts Kingdom and his’s desecration would show the world(The deceived) that Yahweh is really the enemy.

Even today there are many people who hate God and hate that Israel is a nation again. Such a tiny country has caused such an uproar since its inception, the world in general has been trying to find a way to dissolve it.

 

[Jimbone]

The 3rd Temple could be symbolic. As the nations rage war against Israel, the temple would be seen as an affront to the Beasts Kingdom and his’s desecration would show the world(The deceived) that Yahweh is really the enemy.

Even today there are many people who hate God and hate that Israel is a nation again. Such a tiny country has caused such an uproar since its inception, the world in general has been trying to find a way to dissolve it.

See but to me you are now leaving scripture so far behind that the things you're saying now are nowhere in His word I've seen. See how much you have to start stretching and "could be-ing" with this view, what I'm talking about fits so much better I was amazed I'd never heard this view before. Again I'm not trying to be ugly or anything at all, but do you see who has been using what Jesus actually said in it's most simple and strait forward way possible the 70 ad destruction of His temple fits exactly as He said it would, that's why I find the level of resistance to this view so amazing, it fits so much better, I testify that it has awakened me spiritually like never before proclaiming His kingship and glory every chance. I know this is personal and subjective and "proves" nothing, but I have to add it because it truly changed everything, and while I was saved. This was after my radical salvation, it was awesome, but that aside I just don't see the view you have shared so far as very solid, to be honest I don't feel you've addressed a single point I've brought up, save the "The 3rd Temple could be symbolic" part, but again, based on what?

 

[Absolutely]

I've happened on sites that state that the GT described in the book of Matthew chapter 24 is Jesus speaking of the Tribulation described there as a past event. Which is why he is answering the Disciples questions about the event.
I said in a different thread that I'm starting to think that the Bible is arranged to support an either or understanding of most any Apologetics topic. And in this age with how things are now, immorality given license, etc... I can see how some would think we're in the Tribulation period. God doesn't count time as we do, therefore seven years could be counted as He counts time.

All false doctrine Caries within itself "an impossibility" or several of them.
I remember one example where so many prominent m iij ministries jumped on the pre academic race of people before adam.
That falsehood went on for several months.
Even fusha picket joined in on the herasy.

It was Kent hovind that blew it apart.

I never heard that nonsense again after he nuked it.
Lol

 

[Aerials1978]

See but to me you are now leaving scripture so far behind that the things you're saying now are nowhere in His word I've seen. See how much you have to start stretching and "could be-ing" with this view, what I'm talking about fits so much better I was amazed I'd never heard this view before. Again I'm not trying to be ugly or anything at all, but do you see who has been using what Jesus actually said in it's most simple and strait forward way possible the 70 ad destruction of His temple fits exactly as He said it would, that's why I find the level of resistance to this view so amazing, it fits so much better, I testify that it has awakened me spiritually like never before proclaiming His kingship and glory every chance. I know this is personal and subjective and "proves" nothing, but I have to add it because it truly changed everything, and while I was saved. This was after my radical salvation, it was awesome, but that aside I just don't see the view you have shared so far as very solid, to be honest I don't feel you've addressed a single point I've brought up, save the "The 3rd Temple could be symbolic" part, but again, based on what?

I think you’re taking too much of a legalistic view of things. Is there anything I stated that isn’t true? Is not Israel hated? Are the Levite’s not pursuing a Temple? Does the world not despise God?

God does what He said He would do. If a 3rd is Temple is for His will to be done, then it will be built. Don’t take my word for it, take His for it was proclaimed by the Prophets long ago.