Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Actually, he's got some really good insights into the law and it's role in this New Covenant, too.
He's quite an interesting read on many subjects in the Bible.
A little lacking in end times things, though.

Yes he game back and tried to up.his game which really on means more falsehood on top of the original falsehood.

Now wouldn't you agree Ralph ....did you take some additional online free of charge courses ... like..

'How to teach NOSAS like a Pro
Complete with all Standard Embellments, Denials and Word Twists"

 

[EleventhHour]

You are wrong about everything here.


Born of water = born of flesh. Jesus made it very clear.

How many accounts have you had on cc?

See how they deny truth....because they know it interferes with their lies.

 

[mailmandan]

You made a claim john 3 is speaking of water baptism.

You are objectively wrong.

AND so it the Roman Catholic church.

 

[EleventhHour]

Which is why the Bible exhorts us to keep believing, right?

You really do not understand the role of belief in salvation.
You wrongly equate "ongoing belief" with justification.
It is not.

New birth given based upon ONE true belief in the Saviour for salvation....a wholly complete new life imparted.

Get you facts straight....the Gospel is simple and completely by the Grace of God....grace does not require payment.

 

[EleventhHour]

Sounds like Ralph to me. Same one string banjo - "don't stop believing." Not sure why he won't give us a direct honest answer to that direct question. If Ralph was never banned, then he has nothing to hide. I guess some people just like to play games.

Yup, the man who is going to save Christianity.

This accounts for his tenacity, he has a mission...goes along with the prideful dogma

 

[star]

With all the talk about cancer (I hate that disease) just an FYI, I'm a 13 year survivor.

 

[OneOfHis]

@Judges1318

Im sorry for the jokes about your previous accounts. I don't know who you are. I would just LIKE to and maybe got bent out of shape you refuse to give me any sort of answer. Why can't you even answer IF you have had a previous account and just tell me you want to keep the name private.






I have posted this before, but can you show me why you would disagree with this?
v
___

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(Jesus is using birth as an example to help the spiritually blind nicodemus see His point which is relating the PHYSICAL birth to what NEEDS to happen to see the kingdom in spiritual birth...child birth / born of flesh to born of God)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

( Nicodemus, unable to understand this spiritual lesson uses his worldly reasoning to question Jesus about being born of flesh two times...He is understanding that BIRTH is the point of this lesson....)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid =born of flesh and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

(again further explaining the two births.... born of flesh/born of water = natural birth Spirit = born of God)


7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again......
(born once then born, again no baptism mentioned at all here)

Please can you address both points if you find time or desire to reply....

 

[Judges1318]

In it's entirety or was Jesus a little more specific.

There are changes regarding specific things in the law of Moses.
Required changes because there is a new Priesthood.
The law of Moses governed the old priesthood.

 

[Judges1318]

Im sorry for the jokes about your previous accounts. I don't know who you are. I would just LIKE to and maybe got bent out of shape you refuse to give me any sort of answer. Why can't you even answer IF you have had a previous account and just tell me you want to keep the name private.

You do not owe me an apology.
You have been polite and have posted in a friendly, joking way, which I wish we'd see more of around here.

As far as who I am and my on-line activities, that will remain anonymous. That's always the best policy when posting on-line. Let's just have some fun with it and leave it at that. By the way, that 'TheRealRalph' thing was great!

 

[EleventhHour]

You do not owe me an apology.
You have been polite and have posted in a friendly, joking way, which I wish we'd see more of around here.

As far as who I am and my on-line activities, that will remain anonymous. That's always the best policy when posting on-line. Let's just have some fun with it and leave it at that. By the way, that 'TheRealRalph' thing was great!

Good avoiding .....well I give you credit on that.

 

[Judges1318]

I have posted this before, but can you show me why you would disagree with this?
v
___

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(Jesus is using birth as an example to help the spiritually blind nicodemus see His point which is relating the PHYSICAL birth to what NEEDS to happen to see the kingdom in spiritual birth...child birth / born of flesh to born of God)

I don't like the 'literal birth of a child' interpretation because everyone has that requirement covered. It does not need to be pointed out as a requirement to see and enter into the kingdom.

It only relates to natural child birth insofar as the Jews considered themselves citizens of the kingdom of God by virtue of being born Jews. Jews thought they were in good with God by simply being blood Jews. But that's not even the main point Jesus is getting at.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

( Nicodemus, unable to understand this spiritual lesson uses his worldly reasoning to question Jesus about being born of flesh two times...He is understanding that BIRTH is the point of this lesson....)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid =born of flesh and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)

We don't have to wonder about or speculate on what this 'flesh giving birth to flesh' is referring to.
The Bible itself tells us who the man is who is born in the natural way according to the flesh:

"22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise." - Galatians 4:22-23

Paul goes on to explain that the slave woman is the old covenant. That covenant 'births' natural, fleshly sons into the kingdom. The fleshly effort of repentance unto the requirements of the law births the men of flesh, not spiritual men, that Jesus is talking about. That's what Nicodemus is. That's what virtually all Jews are at this time that Jesus comes on the scene. They follow God in the fleshly effort of water baptism in repentance unto the works of the law, birthing the very natural (not spiritual), works oriented follower of God you and others resist. Jesus has come to show the Jews, and us, John's baptism for repentance unto good works is not enough. You must also be born of the Spirit to enter into the kingdom.

 

[Judges1318]

Born of water = born of flesh. Jesus made it very clear.

Yep.
'Flesh gives birth to flesh'.
Fleshly effort gives birth to a fleshly, not spiritual, man.
That effort of works is signified in John's baptism for repentance.
Jesus says that's not enough to see and enter into the kingdom.
You must also be born from above, by the Spirit.

 

[OneOfHis]

Yep.
'Flesh gives birth to flesh'.
Fleshly effort gives birth to a fleshly, not spiritual, man.
That effort of works is signified in John's baptism for repentance.
Jesus says that's not enough to see and enter into the kingdom.
You must also be born from above, by the Spirit.

I still see zero possibility of that being baptism. Water baptism is not birth nor required to see the kingdom of God.



You do not believe Seth was born of water? Do you believe he will see the kingdom of God?

You do not owe me an apology.
You have been polite and have posted in a friendly, joking way, which I wish we'd see more of around here.

As far as who I am and my on-line activities, that will remain anonymous. That's always the best policy when posting on-line. Let's just have some fun with it and leave it at that. By the way, that 'TheRealRalph' thing was great!

I'll stop asking then. 😁 fran?

 

[OneOfHis]

Yep.
'Flesh gives birth to flesh'.
Fleshly effort gives birth to a fleshly, not spiritual, man.
That effort of works is signified in John's baptism for repentance.
Jesus says that's not enough to see and enter into the kingdom.
You must also be born from above, by the Spirit.

How much flesh is in 100% H20?

 

[VCO]

Fralphartc101... or if you dont mind i can just call you fart1 for ease....


You made a claim john 3 is speaking of water baptism.

You are objectively wrong.

The ONLY BAPTISM that SAVES ALL, is the Immersing (Baptism) of the BELIEVER into the Spiritual Body of CHRIST, conducted by the Holy Spirit Himself in our HEARTS (Human Spirit), the moment we Genuinely BELIEVE.

Climbing into a Baptistery before you are Born Again, then all it accomplishes is YOU WENT in a Dry Sinner, and Came Out a Wet Sinner.

Climbing into a Baptistery AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED by immersion into the Spiritual Body of Christ, is only an act of OBEDIENCE, WHEN IT IS DONE OUT OF PURE AGAPE LOVE TOWARDS THE LORD, AND AN ACT OF PUBLIC IDENTIFICATION WITH CHRIST. It is something we do after we have been saved and are already Born Again.

I had the Joy and Privilege of Baptizing my oldest inlaw in a Lake several years ago, and one of my youngest inlaws, who was only 9 years old. Both on the same day. I asked several questions of them both, and they both said of the crucial question: That they have received Jesus Christ in their hearts, and that they want to follow HIS example into the waters of Baptism. AND THEY BOTH KNEW IN THEIR HEARTS HE ALREADY SAVED THEM. I did not see the boy around when I asked the Patriarch of the family the questions. And I was amazed when I asked the same question of the boy. I turned to his Mother, and said, "You have really trained this boy in THEE FAITH, correctly."

Climbing into a Baptistery, River, or Lake, is not part of our Salvation. However, it is Part of our LOVING WALK with CHRIST.


1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body {.ALL certainly includes the thief on the cross. IT IS THE BAPTISM that SAVES.}
--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free
--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[OneOfHis]

I don't like the 'literal birth of a child' interpretation because everyone has that requirement covered. It does not need to be pointed out as a requirement to see and enter into the kingdom.

It only relates to natural child birth insofar as the Jews considered themselves citizens of the kingdom of God by virtue of being born Jews. Jews thought they were in good with God by simply being blood Jews. But that's not even the main point Jesus is getting at.


We don't have to wonder about or speculate on what this 'flesh giving birth to flesh' is referring to.
The Bible itself tells us who the man is who is born in the natural way according to the flesh:

"22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise." - Galatians 4:22-23

Paul goes on to explain that the slave woman is the old covenant. That covenant 'births' natural, fleshly sons into the kingdom. The fleshly effort of repentance unto the requirements of the law births the men of flesh, not spiritual men, that Jesus is talking about. That's what Nicodemus is. That's what virtually all Jews are at this time that Jesus comes on the scene. They follow God in the fleshly effort of water baptism in repentance unto the works of the law, birthing the very natural (not spiritual), works oriented follower of God you and others resist. Jesus has come to show the Jews, and us, John's baptism for repentance unto good works is not enough. You must also be born of the Spirit to enter into the kingdom.

I don't see how you draw the conclusion you're drawing.

If I am honest with myself, with no bias.... I see your reasoning as a stretch and your primary listed reason "everyone experiences being born".... it seems to negate the whole point of why Jesus was using BIRTH as his example.


Relating something everyone has and ought to understand to something everyone needs but can not see without God.

Nicodemus only being able to understand the childbirth even asked if a man can go back in his mothers womb.... he didnt mention baptism and neither did Jesus ... only birth.

ANY man, try as he might will NOT see the kingdom of God unless he is born AGAIN.

 

[EleventhHour]

I don't like the 'literal birth of a child' interpretation because everyone has that requirement covered. It does not need to be pointed out as a requirement to see and enter into the kingdom.

It only relates to natural child birth insofar as the Jews considered themselves citizens of the kingdom of God by virtue of being born Jews. Jews thought they were in good with God by simply being blood Jews. But that's not even the main point Jesus is getting at.


We don't have to wonder about or speculate on what this 'flesh giving birth to flesh' is referring to.
The Bible itself tells us who the man is who is born in the natural way according to the flesh:

"22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise." - Galatians 4:22-23

Paul goes on to explain that the slave woman is the old covenant. That covenant 'births' natural, fleshly sons into the kingdom. The fleshly effort of repentance unto the requirements of the law births the men of flesh, not spiritual men, that Jesus is talking about. That's what Nicodemus is. That's what virtually all Jews are at this time that Jesus comes on the scene. They follow God in the fleshly effort of water baptism in repentance unto the works of the law, birthing the very natural (not spiritual), works oriented follower of God you and others resist. Jesus has come to show the Jews, and us, John's baptism for repentance unto good works is not enough. You must also be born of the Spirit to enter into the kingdom.

Physical birth - Once, can one be unborn NO

Born from Above, Spiritual birth - Once, can one be unborn spiritually NO

Incredible, the depth of distortion to which some travel, to deny the obvious truth of Jesus perfect analogy.

 

[BillG]

How does this fit in with what you just said?

‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified." - Luke 18:14

I was replying to your post below

He is the Son of God, and he died as a ransom to set us free from sin and to rise from the dead to assume his role as High Priest before the Father in heaven for our justification. No need to complicate it beyond that.

What I was worried about is that your above post can come across and seem like they Jesus died to set us free from sin AKA when you come to him the purpose is to stop sinning.

That's why I said "He came to save us as a result of our sin"
Just like the man you mentioned above.

God had mercy on the sinner and he was justified because he knew he was a sinner.
Then I posted the verses I did to show the point I was trying to make is that Jesus died not only to set us free but because we are sinners and before faith as sinners we could not be reconciled to the Father without faith in Jesus.

Then as a result of knowing we are his children and want to be like him then sin will decrease and he will increase.

I was concerned that you may have come across as basically saying "He only died for you to stop sinning"

If so then that causes major doubt for a believer.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, they put you through the ringer. I’ve had so much chemo and radiation leading up to the transplant, it almost did me in, and I’m fairly young. Maybe that’s why I have some strange beliefs? Chemo brain...😳

We may disagree on a few things, but I hold no animosity and really hope you fare well with your battle amigo!

 

[dcontroversal]

Chemo....very, very hard on the body.

I had a friend die from cancer a few years back and while I was visiting him in the area where people were getting chemo they had a guy hooked up getting some type of chemo and it was his last resort and this crap was glowing neon orange......I was thinking crap.....that cannot be good for a person.......it kind of shocked me that they would put something in someone that was glowing neon orange.....