The Times of the Gentiles

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eternally-gratefull said:
Nope

this is a case of you wanting to fit s rapture to fit your belief (see how ridiculous an argument this is? This is not going to convince anyone to see it your way or my way, this
is what we call a strawman argument with no meat)

what this is is a case of you not wanting to actually tell, us in context what the OT prophet said, Ie,

can you tell us why God said they would be punished if they did not come once a year to worship.. this is ALL families, not just the church

and he even gives us the punishment,

no rain

tell us what this means,
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Joe 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

Do you think the rain in the verse above is literal rain or do you think it's symbolic of the word of God, in specific, the later rain being the New Testament?
 
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Dave-L said:
“What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” 2 Corinthians 6:16 (ESV)
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I'm speaking of "in the Greek" -- see: https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/6-16.htm (no "the" word other than the one supplied in the brackets by the editors).


It's not present there in this verse. And it's also not a matter of searching through till one finds a version that might have it where one thinks it should be in order to support one's stance or viewpoint on a matter. :)




[by the way, for the readers, the esv really butchers Rev13:8 where it should read "slain FROM [apo]" NOT "written BEFORE [pro]" ;) (which gives an entirely different meaning)]
 
eternally-gratefull said:
were the Chinese promised land, and promised they would be punished if they did something? Are they also promised if they repent God will remember his promise?

are all jews evil? Yet you judge them all as evil just because they are Jews.

hitler did this, where do you think he got this idea and hatred from?
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What about OT Israel and God's four sore Judgements? For today? In Revelation?
 
KJV1611 said:
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

The feasts were shadows which were fulfilled in Christ.
In your view is God going to require the nations which came against Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles? Is he going to require all Gentiles to start law keeping again?

Why would you assume that those "nations that came against Israel" is something future when we know that this happened in AD 70 and there is no mention of nations coming against Israel more than one time?
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did God say they would be punished?

show me in the history of the earth where gentiles were required to come and worship the king and were punished when they were not

its not my responsibility to question what God says and what he demands

it is my responsibility to believe if he says something will happen, to understand IT WILL HAPPEN

if it were not for the exact punishment I could maybe see it your way, so unless you can explain the Punishment, yu have no basis for which to change my view

God said Jesus would be introduced to jerusalem after the 69the week, it literally happened

God said the suffering servant would be crucified, he was

God said Isreal would because of her sin be overrun from her enemy and her high places destroyed, it happened.

why would God say this event would happen if it were not so?
 
iamsoandso said:
only one nation(singular), the forth beast of Daniel went to war with them in ad70 this is because the time that was prophesied for them to be over them was not finished. That is they obeyed and served under Babylon,Persia and Greece but instead of obeying God and being subject to the fourth beast they rebelled/revolted and tried to set off the captivity of the fourth beast before it's time was fulfilled.
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And then the forth beast suffered a deadly womb and died. As prophesied

We are still waiting for it to be ressurected
 
eternally-gratefull said:
So you can not answer. your going to do what you have continued t9 do and make excuses and try to turn it on me

i know the answer,God does not want us to call out one nation, since every nation is guilty

either way thanks again for showing me no reason to change my view of what you think.
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DO you call out Russia? Saying they will attack Israel?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
did God say they would be punished?

show me in the history of the earth where gentiles were required to come and worship the king and were punished when they were not

its not my responsibility to question what God says and what he demands

it is my responsibility to believe if he says something will happen, to understand IT WILL HAPPEN

if it were not for the exact punishment I could maybe see it your way, so unless you can explain the Punishment, yu have no basis for which to change my view

God said Jesus would be introduced to jerusalem after the 69the week, it literally happened

God said the suffering servant would be crucified, he was

God said Isreal would because of her sin be overrun from her enemy and her high places destroyed, it happened.

why would God say this event would happen if it were not so?
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It is also our responsibility to discern whether a passage is talking about earthly Jerusalem or heavenly Jerusalem, earthly rain or spiritual rain, earthly feasts or the real, fulfillment of what the shadow was pointing to.

We know that the feasts were a shadow of heavenly things, we know those shadows were fulfilled in Christ, this forces us to reject the literal earthly interpretation and go with spiritual.
 
KJV1611 said:
Joe 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

Do you think the rain in the verse above is literal rain or do you think it's symbolic of the word of God, in specific, the later rain being the New Testament?
Click to expand...

18 Then the Lord will be zealous for His land,
And pity His people.
19 The Lord will answer and say to His people,
“Behold, I will send you grain and new wine and oil,
And you will be satisfied by them;
I will no longer make you a reproach among the nations.
20 “But I will remove far from you the northern army,
And will drive him away into a barren and desolate land,
With his face toward the eastern sea
And his back toward the western sea;
His stench will come up,
And his foul odor will rise,
Because he has done [h]monstrous things.”
21 Fear not, O land;
Be glad and rejoice,
For the Lord has done [i]marvelous things!
22 Do not be afraid, you beasts of the field;
For the open pastures are springing up,
And the tree bears its fruit;
The fig tree and the vine yield their strength.
23 Be glad then, you children of Zion,
And rejoice in the Lord your God;
For He has given you the [j]former rain faithfully,
And He will cause the rain to come down for you—
The former rain,
And the latter rain in the first month.
24 The threshing floors shall be full of wheat,
And the vats shall overflow with new wine and oil.
25 “So I will restore to you the years that the swarming [k]locust has eaten,
The crawling locust,
The consuming locust,
And the chewing locust,
My great army which I sent among you.
26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
And praise the name of the Lord your God,
Who has dealt wondrously with you;
And My people shall never be put to shame.
27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
I am the Lord your God
And there is no other.
My people shall never be put to shame.

it is literal rain, how can it be anything else? God restores them and revives their dead land which is desert and brings it to life

the end result, Israel rejoices over the lord and never question him again

don’t take things out of context and think I will not investigate them
 
Dave-L said:
What about OT Israel and God's four sore Judgements? For today? In Revelation?
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What about the OT restoration after the repentance of a Isreal, bringing two nations who divided themselves into sin, which has never been one nation since, and making them one, a nation who praises jesus

we are just supposed to take the bad about Isreal and ignore the good which is to come?
 
Dave-L said:
DO you call out Russia? Saying they will attack Israel?
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Why would I call them out?

if God said they will do it, they will should I argue against that?

babylon and nebechadnezzar was one of the most brutal evil empires ever known, should I call them out?

 
eternally-gratefull said:
What about the OT restoration after the repentance of a Isreal, bringing two nations who divided themselves into sin, which has never been one nation since, and making them one, a nation who praises jesus

we are just supposed to take the bad about Isreal and ignore the good which is to come?
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It is not for you to know the times or the seasons......
 
KJV1611 said:
It is also our responsibility to discern whether a passage is talking about earthly Jerusalem or heavenly Jerusalem, earthly rain or spiritual rain, earthly feasts or the real, fulfillment of what the shadow was pointing to.

We know that the feasts were a shadow of heavenly things, we know those shadows were fulfilled in Christ, this forces us to reject the literal earthly interpretation and go with spiritual.
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Yes it is

so not only will we come, we will come gladly, and more than once a year. In fact, we may never want to leave.

and considering there is punishment, in context t, it CAN NOT be heavenly jerusalem, because there will be no punishment in heaven we will be sinless

or did your forget that?

you must take scripture and interpret what is says, not so if fits what you believe.

punishment means not heaven, it means on earth, where there are still sinners

 
iamsoandso said:
Israel suffered suffered the deadly wound in ad70 and was in the pit in Revelation 17:8 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+13&version=KJV then in 1948 the earth said let us make an image of it and it's wound was healed.
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The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to [d]perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and [e]yet is.

I see it differently,

The beast is the final world leader who is also called the son of perdition, not israel

this same beast goes after the woman (israel in chapter 13) and gd protects her, so the beast goes after her offspring, which is us.
 
Dave-L said:
It is not for you to know the times or the seasons......
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It is for me to know prophecy and properly interpret it so when I see it happening, I KNOW IT IS FROM GOD

and use this information to show the unbelieving world. Hey God said this would happen, turn to God, because things are goi;g to get bad, and people will be decieved.
 
Dave-L said:
DO you believe Russia will march on Israel?
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I believe the king of the north will

i can only guess who that is..

But we are not discussing g this

we are discussing why God said he would punish people when its not true.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
It is for me to know prophecy and properly interpret it so when I see it happening, I KNOW IT IS FROM GOD

and use this information to show the unbelieving world. Hey God said this would happen, turn to God, because things are goi;g to get bad, and people will be decieved.
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Prophecy can only be understood after fulfillment. You cannot use it as a fortune teller to forecast the future.
 
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KJV1611 said:
The feasts were shadows which were fulfilled in Christ.
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Let me just say that I believe Colossians 2:16-17 is making the point that we (the Church which is His body) are not commanded to be keeping these things.

However, the passage itself DOES say, "... which ARE [present tense, plural] A SHADOW [singular] of the things [plural] COMING [present participle]"

(IOW, I am pretty convinced that in the trib years [FOLLOWING our Rapture/THE Departure], that these things will aid Israel in their coming to faith in Christ ["making the connections," so to speak], one of the purposes of the trib years is to bring Israel into the new covenant, as I see it; this is who Matt24:9b is talking about [early-ish in the trib] where it says, "and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake" and v.14's "And this gospel of the kingdom SHALL BE PREACHED in all the world for a witness unto all the nations..." [mid-point and second half] that is, DURING the trib yrs [the Church which is His body will have already been "raptured" out, and which "event" will itself be a primary "impetus" pointing Israel to Christ!])
 
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