Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

[Nehemiah6]

Anyone looking for direct scripture support of the famed Pre-Trib Rapture will come up empty handed.

Another LAUGHABLE statement. Should we ROTFL or just ignore this?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

OKAAAaaaaay. So we just make scripture say what we need for it to say?

So you think that "shall judge the world in righteousness by a Man whom He hath appointed" (Acts 17:31) lasts for merely "a singular 24-hr day" ??

That's not how Psalm 9:7-8, Psalm 96:10-13, Psalm 98:1-10 make it sound.

The "IN WHICH" of Acts 17:31 [and elsewhere, in other related passages] consists of MUCH which will transpire within that [phrase/time]/therein!!

...and I've posted before about how the "THEN" word in 1Cor15:24 ("THEN the end") is a SEQUENCE word only (with NO time element attached with it), so that is referring to the same time frame, that is, His reign (on/over the earth) commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth (Rev19; where Rev19:15b also speaks of "future"... even from that perspective/point in time)

...unfortunately a lot of what goes on under the banner of Christianity today from “God wants you to be rich and healthy” to “we’re not going to have to go through the tribulation” gains a willing audience from people who brush over that “take up your cross and follow me” business.

1,000,000 Armenian Christians martyred at the hands of the Turks in the 20th century alone but somehow we’re special and aren’t going to have to deal with that unpleasantness.

"The Church which is His body" has suffered "tribulations and persections" since coming into existence in the first century (see 2Th1:4, for example), so for NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS!!!; Eph1:20-23. It is not WAITING for the future "7-yr period" in order to experience this.

That is an incorrect understanding of the PURPOSE for that future "7-yr period".

If you believe that, then "too bad" for all those Christians who've had to MISS OUT on that future "7-yr period" coz they died too soon... [?!?! weird!]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[insert ^ ] … and He will "STAND to JUDGE" even BEFORE His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19, where Rev5 speaks of this [/Isa3:13 and other passages]

 

[oyster67]

Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

It's a future event. It's not like going out and digging for dinosaur bones or missing links. The Bible says that there will be a future event that will take the World by surprise. Just believe by faith what the Bible says. Have your lamps trimmed and burning. We shall see the King when He comes! PTL!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Psalm 98:1-10

EDIT to correct reference: ^ this should read "Psalm 98:1-9"

 

[Nehemiah6]

Correct. Jesus comes back once, visibly, to everyone as described in Matthew 24 and Revelation 19.

And this is called THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. It has nothing to do with the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which takes place at least seven years before the Second Coming.

Everyone should note carefully that at the Second Coming, Christ comes from Heaven WITH His saints (and angels) in power and great glory, to execute judgment upon the ungodly: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15)

So in order to come with His saints, it is necessary that Christ first come FOR His saints, And that is the Resurrection/Rapture: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first [see 1 Corinthians 15] : Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thess 4:16,17)

Caught up together = Greek harpagesometha = Latin Rapimur = English Rapture.

 

[Whispered]

Another LAUGHABLE statement. Should we ROTFL or just ignore this?

View attachment 210788

TOM! Those were the days of adorable and funny cartoons.

 

[Whispered]

^ and (to go along with that post), knowing what viewpoint Walvoord held, I SERIOUSLY *doubt* he thought "THE Anti-christ" was present back in the first century (if that is what you are suggesting he meant in any of his writings/statements).

Did you read the article?
This is the article referred to at the Bible.org site.

From the series: Daniel The Key To Prophetic Revelation
9. The Prophecy Of The Seventy Weeks

Article contributed by www.walvoord.com

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Okay, I thought maybe this was what you were getting at.

I've posted before, a number of reasons why I do not believe the "he" of verse 27 is speaking of Jesus (too many of my old posts to place here)… but for a very brief sampling:

--the words "[the prince] THAT SHALL COME" [in the bold] would be superfluous if speaking of the same Person as in v.25; and

--the passage is SEQUENTIAL; and

--the 69 Weeks [TOTAL] were concluded on the very day that Jesus DID the Zech9:9 thing, and SAID the Lk19:41-44 thing (BOTH regarding "the city [/Jerusalem]," which is actually what the prophecy itself IS STATED to pertain to!); Then what took place following that day (Palm Sunday) was the "CUT OFF" thing, which, by comparing several Scriptures, INCLUDES His arrest/trials (as well as the Cross itself)… [I've listed those Scriptures, including Jer11:19 among several others], "cut off and have nothing [or, but not for himself]" (then, here's where what I had put about "Acts 3 [esp. 3:21]" would come into play);

--too many more, to go into here

 

[Whispered]

OKAAAaaaaay. So we just make scripture say what we need for it to say?.

Worked for John Calvin and Martin Luther.And look what that got us.

 

[dcontroversal]

Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

Anyone looking for direct scripture support of the famed Pre-Trib Rapture will come up empty handed. Admits Rapture heavyweight John Walvoord in his book called The Rapture Question (Findlay, OH:1957, p.148). He agrees with G. E. Ladd saying;

"Ladd, in contrast to Jones, concedes that post-tribulalional rapture is an inference rather than an explicit revelation of Scripture in the following statement:

"Nor does the Word explicitly place the Rapture at the end of the Tribulation."

“The fact is that neither posttribulalionism nor pretribulationisim is an explicit teaching of Scripture. The Bible does not in so many words state either.”

“Pretribulationism is based on the fact that it allows a harmony of the Scriptures relating to the Second Advent.”

“The separation of the translation from the return of Christ to earth permits each of the two events so different in character, to have its own place.”

“It solves the problem of the confusing and contradictory details in the post-tribulational interpretation illustrated in the difficulty of the postribulationist's themselves to work out a harmony of prophecies related to the second advent."

Another Rapture heavy-weight, Tim LaHaye says the same:

"One objection to the pre-Tribulation Rapture is that not one passage of Scripture teaches the two aspects of His Second Coming separated by the Tribulation. This is true. But then, no one passage teaches a post-trib or mid-trib Rapture, either."

Tim LaHaye, No Fear of the Storm: Why Christians Will Escape All the Tribulation (Sisters, OR: Multnomah, 1992), 69. This book was later republished as Rapture Under Attack). “That’s Not in the Bible” Gary DeMar

So despite the fact millions of books claiming the rapture flew off the shelves in the face of the failed prophecies surrounding them, why do millions of Christians believe as scripture truth the claims put forth by these?

If you believe in the pre-trib rapture, how do you support it with scripture when these cannot?

Actually the bible is clear....Post Trib/Pre Wrath when all scriptures are evaluated HONESTLY......!

 

[TabinRivCA]

 

[Dave-L]

Actually the bible is clear....Post Trib/Pre Wrath when all scriptures are evaluated HONESTLY......!

Not one mentions it.

 

[Dave-L]

It's a future event. It's not like going out and digging for dinosaur bones or missing links. The Bible says that there will be a future event that will take the World by surprise. Just believe by faith what the Bible says. Have your lamps trimmed and burning. We shall see the King when He comes! PTL!

No mention of a pre trib rapture in scripture. Only a rapture on the last day after the resurrection.

 

[Dave-L]

Another LAUGHABLE statement. Should we ROTFL or just ignore this?

View attachment 210788

Let's see your evidence, then laugh..........

 

[Angela53510]

Some may find these two videos helpful in their study of this topic.

I only watched the second video, but I was most impressed by the accuracy of this teacher. He also pronounced the Greek words properly. I might add, there is only ONE return of Jesus and no rapture. It is not there in the Greek. As for Jerome's Vulgate translation, he barely knew Greek or Hebrew. So, he invented words where he didn't know what the words meant in the original languages!

 

[Guojing]

I only watched the second video, but I was most impressed by the accuracy of this teacher. He also pronounced the Greek words properly. I might add, there is only ONE return of Jesus and no rapture. It is not there in the Greek. As for Jerome's Vulgate translation, he barely knew Greek or Hebrew. So, he invented words where he didn't know what the words meant in the original languages!

If a Christian believe in a pre-trib rapture, while another do not, are there any significance differences in how they will live their lives now on Earth?

 

[Chris1975]

I only watched the second video, but I was most impressed by the accuracy of this teacher. He also pronounced the Greek words properly. I might add, there is only ONE return of Jesus and no rapture. It is not there in the Greek. As for Jerome's Vulgate translation, he barely knew Greek or Hebrew. So, he invented words where he didn't know what the words meant in the original languages!

Curious as to your interpretation of Harpazo then?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Did you read the article?
This is the article referred to at the Bible.org site.

From the series:

Yesterday (at the first posting of this), I didn't realize the big blue font was actually a link.

After you posted this again (and after my response of yesterday), I went and read the article.

He spent the first half (or a good portion of it) explaining how some people (lots of people ) conflate/confuse the "70 Years" prophecy (in the early parts of Daniel 9) with that of the "70 Weeks" prophecy starting later in chapter 9, thus coming to incorrect conclusions regarding it.

I can't say that I found anything terribly "off" about that article, especially in view of what I had placed (briefly) in my response already (that is, esp how the "69 Wks [TOTAL]" concluded on the very day Jesus DID the Zech9:9 thing, and SAID the Lk19:41-44 thing (i.e. on Palm Sunday--the TENTH day of the FIRST MONTH, thus fulfilling Exodus 12:2-6, the selection of the lamb/Lamb) [BOTH re: "the city [/Jerusalem]"--which is what the 2nd prophecy [the "70 WEEKS" prophecy] in Dan9 is stated to pertain to]).

 

[Absolutely]

There can’t be two raptures. There have to be either three or seven because biblical numerology.

Two IS a number of heaven