Can One’s Salvation Be Given Up?

[John146]

Your interpretation is off. As it is in all the world is that it isn't confined to no place or people, but is designed to be a universal religion. It offers the same blessedness in heaven to all. All are included.

Verse 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Not at all, Scripture can be practical. But what’s missing today is sound doctrine. Who is the writer speaking directly to, to whom does the doctrine directly apply?

All Scripture is written for us, but not all is written to us.

All Scripture is written for us, but not all is written to us.

So it is written for us lol this is getting silly.... if its written for us then you agree all scripture is important?

 

[John146]

Sure....

Genesis 3:15
Passover
Lifted Brazen Serpent
Sacrifices
Scapegoat

and on and on and on......

JOB understood the resurrection and at what day he would stand again genius......

Get over the fact that what you peddle is false.....Grace is woven through the whole bible.....and the WHOLE bible testifies of CHRIST and points to him...the fact that you argue against this truth speaks volumes about you

Huh...scripture says otherwise. They didn’t understand that Christ was going to die and be resurrected. That’s our gospel.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Its not. As I have said, all of us accept that when it comes to passages like John 20:23 and Mark 16:17-18.

In fact, other than Roman Catholics, I would suspect many of us may not even be aware that John 20:23 is in the Bible. I can learn from that verse, because I can understand why Ananias and Sapphira died in Acts after Peter questioned them. I just don't go around taking that instruction as written to me.

I agree we can learn from all scripture even if we wasn't the intended audience.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Huh...scripture says otherwise. They didn’t understand that Christ was going to die and be resurrected. That’s our gospel.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Huh what you didn't quote my post.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Verse 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Let's put it this way. Scripture doesn't contradict so if it had been taught around the whole world then Jesus was lying. The end of time hasn't came which is another reason why God is patiently waiting for the full number to be saved. The world in scripture is used atleast 4 different ways. Globe, regional, known world as in only the places you knew existed, or world in a spiritual sense. In fact Rome was often considered the center of the world. All roads led to Rome as they would say. This is why some people debate was the great flood a global, regional or as far as Noah could see flood by defining the word world. We must also remember just as Paul was a man so was Noah. His world as far as he knew was under water as far as he could see.

So I do believe Paul saw the Gospel being spread around his known world. But they also truly believed Christ was returning soon as evident in their writings that is more proof they was speaking from their perspective and current knowledge.

 

[Judges1318]

Surviving a poisonous snake bite does not equal telling believers that one sign in which they believe means they can pick those snakes up.

Right, it doesn't mean believers can purposely pick up deadly snakes (we know that, because that would be tempting the Lord). If you read it you can see the point is they will not be hurt by them. Paul was not hurt by the deadly snake when it bit him.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Right, it doesn't mean believers can purposely pick up deadly snakes (we know that, because that would be tempting the Lord). If you read it you can see the point is they will not be hurt by them. Paul was not hurt by the deadly snake when it bit him.

I agree if those verses are true. Do you believe Mark 16 starting verse 9 was meant to be in Mark. The oldest copies didn't have that ending. That ending was found later. And even the fluidity doesn't fit good at the end.

But I agree if it was true, it wasn't a command but only prophetic foretelling of what some believers would do. If God created the universe from nothing, I definitely could believe he could do a miracle like that.

 

[FlyingDove]

Yes what of it? It wasn't recorded what they taught. It was mostly Jesus who is talking.



Matthew 24:13-14
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

God has a Kingdom and whoever stands firm until the end will be saved. The Kingdom of God will overtake the Kingdom of Satan. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the message that Jesus brought and fulfilled. The Gospel that the Apostles including Paul preached until most of them martyred.

I have already seen your interpretation that that is supposed to be a different Gospel which is a very poor interpretation.

Matt 24:13 context is key


All scripture was written for us. Not all scripture is written to us.

Scripture Study Tips

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator.^^^^^

So, ask: Who is writing? Who’s it written to? What are the circumstances? What’s the context before? What's the context after?

Invariably Matt 24:13 is posted, OUT OF CONTEXT. Remove the TEXT and all that's left is the CON!

Matt 24:13 Proper Context. Who is the speaker? JESUS

Context: Who is Jesus speaking to? Verse 2 earthly/Jewish disciples. This is day 3 of passion week. The Holy Spirit has yet to be given, therefore, no Body of Christ/Christian exist.

Context: What is Jesus speaking about? Verse 3 the end of the world/age. The end of your life? NO!

Context: Verses 4-13 The prophecy here parallels the END TIME seal judgments:

Matt 24: Vs 5 - Rev 6:2 false Christ's, Vs 6 - Rev 6:3&4 war, Vs 7 - Rev: 5&6, Famine, Vs 6&7 - Rev 6:7&8 death, Vs 9-13 - Rev 6:6-11 martyers

Matt 24:14 the gospel of the kingdom =100% jewish doctrine. Quote: "and then shall the end come". The end of one's life? NO!

Vs 15 references Daniel & the abomination of desolation

Vs 16 let those where? in Judea! NOT A CHURCH GOER IN THE USA!

Vs 21 there shall be great tribulation. In your life? No! Vs 27 Christ returns. Vs 29 After the tribulation of those days, NOT your life!

Context: Matt 24 Jesus is speaking to "Jews only about Israel's Future" Fortelling the tribulation period to come. BTW the tribulation is referred to as JACOB/ISRAELS TROUBLE. Jeremiah 30:7

When reading Vs 13 he who endures to the end, we must take from scripture via context. Not adding to scripture a false doctrinal narrative.

 

[oyster67]

I am not asking this question from a theological perspective, but instead from a matter of fact. I tend to lean towards yes, one can “Give up” their salvation.

Scripture states that salvation cannot be take from a believer, but there are passages that indicate that a person can essentially forgo this free gift of God. I have listed verses below that I believe can verify this concept:

Matthew 5:13
Matthew 3:10
Mark 4:1-20
Revaluation 3:14-19

If you agree or disagree, please feel to explain why.

Agree. God is not in the business of setting steel man-traps. Many a man has returned to his hog wallow and vomit. This sort of thing needs to be repented of, else Salvation will be lost... so says the Word of God.

 

[oyster67]

Paul was not hurt by the deadly snake when it bit him.

Because he was not putting on a big circus act by doing it on purpose. God will not tolerate foolishness.

 

[Guojing]

Right, it doesn't mean believers can purposely pick up deadly snakes (we know that, because that would be tempting the Lord). If you read it you can see the point is they will not be hurt by them. Paul was not hurt by the deadly snake when it bit him.

You are injecting your own interpretation into mark 16:17-18.

If you refuse to read it literally, at least have the courage to admit it and no one will fault you for doing that

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Matt 24:13 context is key


All scripture was written for us. Not all scripture is written to us.

Scripture Study Tips

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator.^^^^^

So, ask: Who is writing? Who’s it written to? What are the circumstances? What’s the context before? What's the context after?

Invariably Matt 24:13 is posted, OUT OF CONTEXT. Remove the TEXT and all that's left is the CON!

Matt 24:13 Proper Context. Who is the speaker? JESUS

Context: Who is Jesus speaking to? Verse 2 earthly/Jewish disciples. This is day 3 of passion week. The Holy Spirit has yet to be given, therefore, no Body of Christ/Christian exist.

Context: What is Jesus speaking about? Verse 3 the end of the world/age. The end of your life? NO!

Context: Verses 4-13 The prophecy here parallels the END TIME seal judgments:

Matt 24: Vs 5 - Rev 6:2 false Christ's, Vs 6 - Rev 6:3&4 war, Vs 7 - Rev: 5&6, Famine, Vs 6&7 - Rev 6:7&8 death, Vs 9-13 - Rev 6:6-11 martyers

Matt 24:14 the gospel of the kingdom =100% jewish doctrine. Quote: "and then shall the end come". The end of one's life? NO!

Vs 15 references Daniel & the abomination of desolation

Vs 16 let those where? in Judea! NOT A CHURCH GOER IN THE USA!

Vs 21 there shall be great tribulation. In your life? No! Vs 27 Christ returns. Vs 29 After the tribulation of those days, NOT your life!

Context: Matt 24 Jesus is speaking to "Jews only about Israel's Future" Fortelling the tribulation period to come. BTW the tribulation is referred to as JACOB/ISRAELS TROUBLE. Jeremiah 30:7

When reading Vs 13 he who endures to the end, we must take from scripture via context. Not adding to scripture a false doctrinal narrative.

Agree context is very important but you must also understand prophecy has a now and to come type of message. The end times will affect us all regardless if the prophecy is directed to the Jews as to why every verse is important to learn from. By standing firm until the end and I will be saved is just as true for me as it was to Jesus's audience. Obviously if one loses faith and apostates, then they have walked away from the only source of salvation.

As it was said all scripture is written for us and will affect us in one way either directly or indirectly.

 

[Judges1318]

Do you believe Mark 16 starting verse 9 was meant to be in Mark. The oldest copies didn't have that ending. That ending was found later. And even the fluidity doesn't fit good at the end.

I don't know if it was meant to be in Mark but everything it says is confirmed by other scripture so I have no problem accepting it as part of Mark.

 

[Judges1318]

it wasn't a command but only prophetic foretelling of what some believers would do.

Yep.
Agree.

 

[Judges1318]

You are injecting your own interpretation into mark 16:17-18.

If you refuse to read it literally, at least have the courage to admit it and no one will fault you for doing that

I don't know if English is your first language or not, but in English it isn't written as commands. We would only read it that way if it said, "you are to drive out demons", and, "you are to pick up snakes", and, "you are to drink deadly poison".

@Roughsoul1991 said it well. It's prophetic of what believers will do, not a command for them to do it. And it is literal.

17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” - Mark 16:17-18

 

[Guojing]

I don't know if English is your first language or not, but in English it isn't written as commands. We would only read it that way if it said, "you are to drive out demons", and, "you are to pick up snakes", and, "you are to drink deadly poison".

@Roughsoul1991 said it well. It's prophetic of what believers will do, not a command for them to do it. And it is literal.

17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” - Mark 16:17-18

No one is saying it’s a command in the first place,

The English states they shall Take up serpents, not if a serpent happens to bite you.

the literal meaning is clear to me without having to alter the words like what you are doing

 

[Guojing]

When you say people then you must come into a lot of opposition to your theology which is a good sign that something may be wrong with your interpretations.

Let me ask you. Would you be right to go and live a unforgiving state of mind? Would that indicate a fruit of saved individual? Wouldn't you agree there is something to learn here? And again Jesus was teaching a lot from the law which is perfect and holy. His main purpose was to show we cannot save ourselves. Even if we could forgive everyone, at some point during Jesus's teachings we would see ourselves as a sinner. A Sinner. That is the point. Even forgiving all the time is hard. That is the point. Jesus basically showing the law sets the bar higher than we could ever achieve on our own.

This is just simple Christian doctrine.

So do you believe that if you don’t forgive others, God won’t forgive you?

 

[Judges1318]

No one is saying it’s a command in the first place,

The English states they shall Take up serpents, not if a serpent happens to bite you.

the literal meaning is clear to me without having to alter the words like what you are doing

The implication of taking up a serpent is that it will bite you.
The point is about being bitten by a serpent, not about handling them.

 

[Guojing]

The implication of taking up a serpent is that it will bite you.
The point is about being bitten by a serpent, not about handling them.

you cannot tell that you are ignoring the literal English words with that interpretation of yours?