Not By Works

[gb9]

so

You people are always talking about God's grace which includes forgiveness and goodwill to others.

But on here forgiveness has been banned because it is works, and I do not see an ounce of goodwill anywhere.

so, in other words, you can't or won't define grace, or are you are just playing games?

so, define grace, or decide to quit playing games.

 

[PS]

Where did I even suggest what you said? Don’t you get sick if misunderstanding people and having to be called out for it?

If your forgiving your neighbor as a means of doing things to keep your salvation you are doing a work (the wage is salvation)

If your doing it because God has forgives you continually. Thus you are empowered to love and forgive your neighbor it’s a fruit of the spirit

there is a huge difference here

Why would I forgive my neighbour to maintain my salvation? Are we not always saved?

 

[PS]

so


so, in other words, you can't or won't define grace, or are you are just playing games?

so, define grace, or decide to quit playing games.

I did here #125,593 I gave a short definition of forgiveness and goodwill to others.

 

[CherieR]

I have not been able to hold a grudge since as long as I have been a Christian... there is never malice


definitely anger against lies or injustice

but never some sort of unrighteous desire for harm or any sort of malice

that being said

if I had some seeds in me of ... wrongful anger or unforgiveness

my Father is still my Father

and it is still Jesus who justifies me

but He will see where I am in error and not take it lightly

who knows how He will correct me to deliver me from anything He wants out of my life


and for as long as i hold on to whatever this is (even if it is unforgiveness aginst something that should make us angry like injustice) I can't expect to be a shining example or one who is about to recieve anything other than correction from a Holy and righteous Father...

Much of the compulsions I have done revolved around the topic of forgiveness, a misunderstanding of Jesus words and a fear of going to hell for being unforgiving. And so the compulsions were excessive praying for whomever, repeatingly saying I forgive somebody in prayers, asking self if I really did forgive( I didn't want to think I did and be wrong. Psalm 139:23-24 was encouraging for that), Google searching on what forgiveness is and is not, and maybe even bible reading as a way to reassure myself. So it was a mess.

Still I found the more I have read from Scripture, the more encouragement I would receive. Even reading last night in Numbers 16. Particularly when a plague breaks out for opposing Moses after what happened to Korah, and how when atonement was made for the people, the plague was stopped. This atonement I saw to be a picture of Christ payment for sins. One of the most encouraging pictures for me was thinking of being in Christ, a part of his body. And I remember looking at my hand in wonder and also sometime thinking to myself I belong. Then I have taken notice of how in Ephesians 5:25-27 that not only did Jesus Christ come to pay for our sins and save us but also sanctify and cleanse the church( v 26) to present it to himself holy and without blemish( v 27). And this purpose he has he will accomplish.

 

[EleventhHour]

Dog walk time. When I come back I want to know where Christian love and goodwill has gone.

Those that are earning their salvation by some "work" always seems to be "works" inspectors and seem to have a very high opinion of themselves as well.

Those that hold to OSAS will never have "goodwill" towards your dogma, it did not go anywhere it never existed.

 

[PS]

Much of the compulsions I have done revolved around the topic of forgiveness, a misunderstanding of Jesus words and a fear of going to hell for being unforgiving. And so the compulsions were excessive praying for whomever, repeatingly saying I forgive somebody in prayers, asking self if I really did forgive( I didn't want to think I did and be wrong. Psalm 139:23-24 was encouraging for that), Google searching on what forgiveness is and is not, and maybe even bible reading as a way to reassure myself. So it was a mess.

Still I found the more I have read from Scripture, the more encouragement I would receive. Even reading last night in Numbers 16. Particularly when a plague breaks out for opposing Moses after what happened to Korah, and how when atonement was made for the people, the plague was stopped. This atonement I saw to be a picture of Christ payment for sins. One of the most encouraging pictures for me was thinking of being in Christ, a part of his body. And I remember looking at my hand in wonder and also sometime thinking to myself I belong. Then I have taken notice of how in Ephesians 5:25-27 that not only did Jesus Christ come to pay for our sins and save us but also sanctify and cleanse the church( v 26) to present it to himself holy and without blemish( v 27). And this purpose he has he will accomplish.

In church, we sing a hymn with the words, "Let the beauty of Jesus be seen in me."

We are in Jesus and he in us. As Christians, we are told we are the light of the world, and to let it shine.

 

[CherieR]

In church, we sing a hymn with the words, "Let the beauty of Jesus be seen in me."

We are in Jesus and he in us. As Christians, we are told we are the light of the world, and to let it shine.

I don't know that song but I intend to look it up. Thanks.

 

[OneOfHis]

Much of the compulsions I have done revolved around the topic of forgiveness, a misunderstanding of Jesus words and a fear of going to hell for being unforgiving. And so the compulsions were excessive praying for whomever, repeatingly saying I forgive somebody in prayers, asking self if I really did forgive( I didn't want to think I did and be wrong. Psalm 139:23-24 was encouraging for that), Google searching on what forgiveness is and is not, and maybe even bible reading as a way to reassure myself. So it was a mess.

Still I found the more I have read from Scripture, the more encouragement I would receive. Even reading last night in Numbers 16. Particularly when a plague breaks out for opposing Moses after what happened to Korah, and how when atonement was made for the people, the plague was stopped. This atonement I saw to be a picture of Christ payment for sins. One of the most encouraging pictures for me was thinking of being in Christ, a part of his body. And I remember looking at my hand in wonder and also sometime thinking to myself I belong. Then I have taken notice of how in Ephesians 5:25-27 that not only did Jesus Christ come to pay for our sins and save us but also sanctify and cleanse the church( v 26) to present it to himself holy and without blemish( v 27). And this purpose he has he will accomplish.

I placed myself in a similar bondage.... I let myself be used by ungrateful people and wasted a lot of what God provided for many years, I also could find myself feeling absolute dread for something like a fleeting thought or moment of weakness...


It was just.... a sloppy understanding of HIM and His promises that left me in such an up and down mindset...

Yes He has use for me and I am to show my love for Him by allowing His love to shine through me... but no I can't look to self to determine if I ought to be saved because the only way I can have an unshakable hope or any joy is if it is in knowing HE saved me and He keeps me....


I think most of us need to hit that wall.... to 100% submit to His righteousness rather than establish our own...

reminds me of the end of romans 9 and start of 10

 

[BillG]

@PS

I have a notification saying you quoted my post but cannot see it.

 

[EleventhHour]

Why would I forgive my neighbour to maintain my salvation? Are we not always saved?

That is right we are completely saved, one does not forgive one suffers the consequences.

Ever hear the saying....

"Bitterness is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die."

 

[PS]

I don't know that song but I intend to look it up. Thanks.

 

[EleventhHour]

@PS

I have a notification saying you quoted my post but cannot see it.

Probably deleted it.

 

[PS]

@PS

I have a notification saying you quoted my post but cannot see it.

It was in reply to someone else, but somehow your name got attached to it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would I forgive my neighbour to maintain my salvation? Are we not always saved?

According to you no
that’s what you have been preaching as long as I can remember

 

[EleventhHour]

You cannot possible disagree if you read my post. I addressed false teaching and that it should be corrected, not tolerated.
And saying, "Being Christlike is not compromising." Misrepresents what I actually said.

I said precisely the opposite as pertains to your comment about being Christ like.
In point of fact, what compromises the spirit of the believer who is to put on Christ, be Christ like, is that which acts contrary to His grace and then defends it as that which He would approve. So too is agreeing that kind of behavior is Christ like.

On a personal note: I concurred with PS's atheist observation because I agreed with their observation of the image and likeness of that one to whom they referred. And to that end all that I'd seen and read as directed toward myself let that one's posting style then makes sense.

I once knew someone who owned and operated an atheist discussion forum. Until they found Christ. There he said were aligned a number of atheist members who collaborated together so as to then harass Christians, (at that time I wasn't aware of the all inclusive term Forum Troll), so as to present the worst possible example of one.
Haven't thought of Doug in their capacity as owner/operator for many years now as he passed on in 2016. However, reading PS's remark, I remembered the discussion Doug and I had about that sort of thing. I still have his emails because he was very dear to our family.

What we said back then still applies. When someone puts on the Devil in the name of Christ, they demonstrate they are aligned with one but not the other due to the fit.

And that too may be judged by you as my judging someone's heart and yet, everyone here who levies insult toward anyone and then defends their reason for that is doing that very thing. Judge not lest ye be judged. But if ye judge , judge with righteous judgement.

We shall all be judged by God in the end. And we shall answer for every word we've uttered when we put on Christ and exampled what being Holy Spirit filled meant to us as one sheep in the eternal flock of many.

And that indeed does conclude my feeling the need to respond further to this off topic focus.
Blessings.

I concurred with PS's atheist observation because I agreed with their observation of the image and likeness of that one to whom they referred.

Wow

I think the 'agree" only demonstrates your ongoing animosity that has been evidenced on this thread many times towards @dcontroversal.

Really it just blows my mind, that you could think someone, who defends and presents the real Gospel (saved not quasi-saved) is an atheist and is leading people away from Saviour, solely based on language you do not like.

And the real kicker is @PS promotes heresy.

Even if I absolutely disliked a person I could never, ever side with someone who promotes false dogma.

Perhaps, you have not been affected by false doctrine and that is why you so easily compromise... and I can easily pray you never

will ........ however, I much prefer you learn to stand resolute without that soul destroying experience.

I agree enough said.

 

[PS]

According to you no
that’s what you have been preaching as long as I can remember

I have said lots of times that we are always saved, UNLESS WE TURN OUR BACKS ON HIM and refuse to come back.

This is known as apostasy.

 

[Judges1318]

How can people disagree with that?

I'm just as amazed at that as you are.
But that's just where Christianity is today.
Grace makes it so the scriptures don't really mean what they say.

 

[EleventhHour]

I have said lots of times that we are always saved, UNLESS WE TURN OUR BACKS ON HIM and refuse to come back.

This is known as apostasy.

Wrong
We do not save ourselves we cannot unsave ourselves

Very simple really!

 

[Rosemaryx]

I have said lots of times that we are always saved, UNLESS WE TURN OUR BACKS ON HIM and refuse to come back.

This is known as apostasy.

Those who turn their back on our Lord were never saved...These Apostates " creep in "...They are never called...

 

[CherieR]

I placed myself in a similar bondage.... I let myself be used by ungrateful people and wasted a lot of what God provided for many years, I also could find myself feeling absolute dread for something like a fleeting thought or moment of weakness...


It was just.... a sloppy understanding of HIM and His promises that left me in such an up and down mindset...

Yes He has use for me and I am to show my love for Him by allowing His love to shine through me... but no I can't look to self to determine if I ought to be saved because the only way I can have an unshakable hope or any joy is if it is in knowing HE saved me and He keeps me....


I think most of us need to hit that wall.... to 100% submit to His righteousness rather than establish our own...

reminds me of the end of romans 9 and start of 10

There is a particular song by Katy Perry that was encouraging to me. It seems to be about a romantic relationship but the man changes his mind a bunch and speaks in a cryptical way. In the original it has a cuss word in it but in the clean version, the word is taken out.

Still the song reminded me God does not change his mind as a person may do. Neither does he speak unclearly about salvation. "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" Galatians 3:26

With God we don't have to look for the fine print or loopholes in his word for all his words are pure.( see Proverbs 30:5 )