Can One’s Salvation Be Given Up?

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Dec 12, 2013
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#81
Yes, I believe it was. Now tell me how I am wrong from your Pauline theological view.
No offence, but pitting PAUL against JESUS is Pitting JESUS against JESUS.....the words of PAUL are the words of JESUS unless NOTED by PAUL on the few occasions he TOOK the liberty to give his own personal view.....
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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#82
The Gospel of the Kingdom required all to obey the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20) and was forbidden to be preached to the Gentiles
(Matthew 10:5) .

Paul's gospel (2 Timothy 2:8, Romans 2:16) was open to the Gentiles and everyone became dead to the Law. Romans 7:4

That was the most significant difference that required a council to be specifically set up to decide. (Acts 15, Galatians 2)
Like I asked the other poster, can you provide a respected Pastor or Theologian that teaches this?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#83
In all honesty I think came up this with on your own. You’re throwing out bits of scripture, but you’re not elaborating on way. Somehow this makes sense to you, but I have no idea why. Please provide a well respected and learned Pastor, Theologian, or Apologetic that agrees with this.
I post scripture, lots of scripture. I’m sorry if you can’t see that the disciples had no understanding of the d,b,r. This is the gospel that Paul taught.

1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
 
Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
#84
One can turn their back and lose faith, but God remains faithful. Circumstances in life may cause a believer to drift away from the Lord, but the Lord never loses that which is His.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold all souls are mine; the soul that sineth ,it shall die . You are teaching a doctrine that cause a lot of souls to be lost .The dog & 2 PETER 2:22 the sow that was washed . Once it go's back into the mire it is no longer clean . GOD bless as HE sees Fit.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
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#85
No offence, but pitting PAUL against JESUS is Pitting JESUS against JESUS.....the words of PAUL are the words of JESUS unless NOTED by PAUL on the few occasions he TOOK the liberty to give his own personal view.....
No, he’s talking about something else. A lot of Pauline followers believe actual grace didn’t come until Paul started speaking to the Gentiles. I’m trying to figure what his stance is.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#86
Like I asked the other poster, can you provide a respected Pastor or Theologian that teaches this?
That is a kind of strange request, I have provided scripture, isn't scripture the best teacher?

Who are the ones you considered respected?
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#87
I post scripture, lots of scripture. I’m sorry if you can’t see that the disciples had no understanding of the d,b,r. This is the gospel that Paul taught.

1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
Again, can you point to someone(modern times) that validates this?
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#88
That is a kind of strange request, Isn't scripture the best teacher?

Who are the ones you considered respected?
Why is it a strange request? Surely there are scholars a such that would have an opinion on this. Just give one name that validates this.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#89
I believe that a lot of people become complacent with their faith. This why I have such issues with so called Hyper-Grace Pastors. I believe there is a specific reason why we as Believers are warned against falling away. I think when Jesus gave a stern warning to the Church of Laodicea, he wasn't using a euphemism.
A faith that is stagnant is a faith that in the mtn of life has halted in the climb of sanctification until glorification at the peak which is our resurrection in Christ. The stagnant faith for many reasons stops due to the climb may have become exhausting, scary, too treacherous, too many obstacles, not a convenient enough of a path.

This faith is always in danger of turning around or completely giving up. So called eventually apostasy. Only God can see the heart of these individuals and the full life of the individual.

Us as Christians must examine the fruit and with discernment determine are they in a period of doubt and some discipleship may help or if they have grown hostile towards the faith then what led to that? A long festering doubt? A life crisis? A false teacher? If this can be discovered we may can bring them back. If all else fails as Paul said to release them to Satan and in prayer we pray that life and consequences of sin will bring them home. Will the individual be like the prodigal son? Only God knows and so for us we should never give up on the lost until we die or Christ returns.

But at the same time protect ourselves and
1 Corinthians 9:26-27
26 I therefore so run, but not with uncertainty; I so fight, but not as one that beateth the air.
27 But I keep control of my body, and bring it into subjection, lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

We must be in a daily practice of carrying ones cross which is in full submission and abiding faith that we rely on God and God alone to sustain us until the day of completion.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#90

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#91
Why is it a strange request? Surely there are scholars a such that would have an opinion on this. Just give one name that validates this.
These Laodicean pastors who learned from Laodicean seminaries? Lol...I wouldn’t give two cents for a seminary degree today.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#92
Scripture states that salvation cannot be take from a believer,
It is impossible to separate a BELIEVER from salvation.

The believer has to go back to unbelief and be turned over to that unbelief for him to lose his salvation. But as long as you are a believer you are forever secure in salvation.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#93

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#94
These Laodicean pastors who learned from Laodicean seminaries? Lol...I wouldn’t give two cents for a seminary degree today.
So can you provide someone that adheres to your doctrine?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
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#95
No, he’s talking about something else. A lot of Pauline followers believe actual grace didn’t come until Paul started speaking to the Gentiles. I’m trying to figure what his stance is.
Grace came as a result of the resurrection. You know, the resurrection that the disciples had no clue about before the cross.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#96
No, he’s talking about something else. A lot of Pauline followers believe actual grace didn’t come until Paul started speaking to the Gentiles. I’m trying to figure what his stance is.
Yeah I do not believe that drivel either......Grace is woven through the whole bible even though it is partially hidden in the O.T.....

example....

Under the law, David should have been put to death for his adultery with Bathsheba and subsequent murder of Uriah...yet GOD had mercy, spared David, took the innocent son of David in his place (picture of JESUS) and under chastisement punished David through various means as evidenced by the Psalms.......
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#97
It is impossible to separate a BELIEVER from salvation.

The believer has to go back to unbelief and be turned over to that unbelief for him to lose his salvation. But as long as you are a believer you are forever secure in salvation.
Grace came as a result of the resurrection. You know, the resurrection that the disciples had no clue about before the cross.
So why did Jesus perform miracles and forgive sin if there was no grace?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#99
So why did Jesus perform miracles and forgive sin if there was no grace?
Miracles were signs to the Jews in order for them to believe the message. Jews seek after a sign. We are commanded to walk by faith not by sight.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
Yeah I do not believe that drivel either......Grace is woven through the whole bible even though it is partially hidden in the O.T.....

example....

Under the law, David should have been put to death for his adultery with Bathsheba and subsequent murder of Uriah...yet GOD had mercy, spared David, took the innocent son of David in his place (picture of JESUS) and under chastisement punished David through various means as evidenced by the Psalms.......
Is not the gospel that Paul taught, how Christ died for our sins, was buried and resurrected on the third day? Did the disciples understand this message before the cross?