3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
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And you take from this that the Church is now the commonwealth of Israel? Actually, a Jewish believer is no longer part of the commonwealth of Israel, just like a saved Gentile is not a Gentile any longer but a member of the body of Christ....no Israel, no Gentile, but the household of God.
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Calvinism is said to be making a resurgence in America of late. I don't know about that (article), however, I do know it appears to be surging through BDF here.
Calvinism, also called The Reformed Doctrine, cannot in all its formula, TULIP included, make sense of the crucifixion and still affirm its own tenets.
The article below is intended for all people here. Those who may be seeking after Salvation in our Lord. And those who are Christian and to whom the Reformed message says are quite possibly deluding themselves when we think we are saved.
One would also wonder, how does a Calvinist know they are one of the Elect for certain? Because John Calvin said there is such a thing? And "you" are it?
At the end of this article there is an observation and that which led me to share the entire article here due to the truth within it and the reminder to all who hold God most dear. "If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace?"
3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
By Jeremy Myers
In my current series on Calvinism, I have had several Calvinists leave comments about their areas of disagreement with what I have written.
I fully expect and invite disagreement. Please … if you are a Calvinist and disagree with what I am writing, let me know, and present your views!
However, I have noticed a trend in the comments that have been left by Calvinists thus far. There seems to be three main tactics or approaches that Calvinists have used in their attempts to defend their ideas and disprove mine.
1. Name Calling
It always surprises me how quickly some Calvinists turn to name calling as a way to defend their ideas. If you are not a Calvinist and seek to teach your views, be prepared to be called a heretic, a reprobate, a mouthpiece of Satan, and a fool. Some Calvinists may simply say that you are stupid, ignorant, or spiritually blind.
When I was in grade-school, I never understood why some kids thought they could win arguments by calling other people names, and I still don’t understand it today.
Very rarely is there any proper place in serious theological discussion for cajoling, slander, vilification, and the mocking of others.
If you are a Calvinist and you believe that I am stupid, ignorant, and the mouthpiece of Satan because I am not a Calvinist, show it by the weight of your exegetical arguments; not by calling me silly names.
2. Scripture Quotations
Along with name calling, Calvinists seem to think that everybody would become a Calvinist if they would just “read their Bible.” I often find that when Calvinists disagree, they think they can settle the argument by telling the person to go “read their Bible.”
Of course, I find this tactic used by many various groups within Christianity. Most people seem to think that what they believe is exactly what the Bible teaches, and if people would read the Bible, they would come to the same beliefs.
What many Calvinists do not seem to grasp is that reading the Bible is one thing; understanding it is another. Even highly educated and well-respected scholars and Bible teachers disagree with each other about the meaning of the text.
Do I read and study the Bible? Of course! I have been reading and studying it for decades. In fact, it is exactly because of my reading and studying that I eventually abandoned Calvinism.
Often, along with inviting non-Calvinists to just “read the Bible,” Calvinists like to type out longs lists of Bible quotes which the Calvinists thinks proves and defends the Calvinistic system of theology.
Their approach goes like this:
In a post from several years ago, I referred to this tactic as Shotgun Hermeneutics. Some people seem to think they can win theology debates by simply quoting a lot of Bible verses, as if the other person was not aware of those verses and had never read them in the Bible.
Usually, when Calvinists do this to me, I simply reply with a comment like this:
3. Appeals to Tradition and Authority
The final tactic that Calvinists often use to defend Calvinism is with appeals to tradition and authority. Usually, if you disagree with a Calvinist on the meaning of a particular Bible verse, rather than deal with the exegetical evidence that was prevented about the verse, they will say that your understanding is wrong, because it disagrees with what John Calvin, John Piper, or John MacArthur teaches (or some other Calvinist).
I have a book in my library where an extremely popular Calvinist in which he lays and defends the Calvinistic doctrines. When I first read it, I was a Calvinist, but I remember being extremely uncomfortable with how he defended his views. Rather than base his arguments on a detailed analysis of pertinent Scripture texts, he tended to quote St. Augustine (who predated Calvinism), John Calvin, and other prominent Calvinistic theologians.
There is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out that other Bible teachers and scholars agree with your views, but the trouble comes in when some people seem ignorant of the fact that there are many good and respectable Bible teachers and scholars who disagree.
Furthermore, I always find it interesting that Calvinists praise men like Martin Luther and John Calvin for seeking to reform the traditional teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, but then condemn those who want to reform the traditional teachings of the Calvinistic system of theology.
Anyway, even though you can quote a bunch of scholars, authors, and Bible teachers who agree with your perspective, this does not prove that your view is correct.
Main Problem: A Lack of Grace
The main irony or problem with lots of the disagreement that comes from Calvinists is that it lacks grace.
Usually, when a Calvinist engages in the 3 tactics listed above, it is done with a complete lack of grace. I find this most troubling. Why is it that Calvinists, who claim to teach ‘The Doctrines of Grace” are so ungracious when dealing with those who disagree?
If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace? I think so.
Calvinism, also called The Reformed Doctrine, cannot in all its formula, TULIP included, make sense of the crucifixion and still affirm its own tenets.
The article below is intended for all people here. Those who may be seeking after Salvation in our Lord. And those who are Christian and to whom the Reformed message says are quite possibly deluding themselves when we think we are saved.
One would also wonder, how does a Calvinist know they are one of the Elect for certain? Because John Calvin said there is such a thing? And "you" are it?
At the end of this article there is an observation and that which led me to share the entire article here due to the truth within it and the reminder to all who hold God most dear. "If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace?"
3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
By Jeremy Myers
In my current series on Calvinism, I have had several Calvinists leave comments about their areas of disagreement with what I have written.
I fully expect and invite disagreement. Please … if you are a Calvinist and disagree with what I am writing, let me know, and present your views!
However, I have noticed a trend in the comments that have been left by Calvinists thus far. There seems to be three main tactics or approaches that Calvinists have used in their attempts to defend their ideas and disprove mine.
1. Name Calling
When I was in grade-school, I never understood why some kids thought they could win arguments by calling other people names, and I still don’t understand it today.
Very rarely is there any proper place in serious theological discussion for cajoling, slander, vilification, and the mocking of others.
If you are a Calvinist and you believe that I am stupid, ignorant, and the mouthpiece of Satan because I am not a Calvinist, show it by the weight of your exegetical arguments; not by calling me silly names.
2. Scripture Quotations
Along with name calling, Calvinists seem to think that everybody would become a Calvinist if they would just “read their Bible.” I often find that when Calvinists disagree, they think they can settle the argument by telling the person to go “read their Bible.”
Of course, I find this tactic used by many various groups within Christianity. Most people seem to think that what they believe is exactly what the Bible teaches, and if people would read the Bible, they would come to the same beliefs.
What many Calvinists do not seem to grasp is that reading the Bible is one thing; understanding it is another. Even highly educated and well-respected scholars and Bible teachers disagree with each other about the meaning of the text.
Do I read and study the Bible? Of course! I have been reading and studying it for decades. In fact, it is exactly because of my reading and studying that I eventually abandoned Calvinism.
Often, along with inviting non-Calvinists to just “read the Bible,” Calvinists like to type out longs lists of Bible quotes which the Calvinists thinks proves and defends the Calvinistic system of theology.
Their approach goes like this:
You heretic! If you had simply read the Bible, you would know that you are filled with the lies of the devil! Here’s proof:
Bible Quotation 1
Bible Quotation 2
Bible Quotation 3
etc …
In fact, one classic book on Calvinism (The Five Points of Calvinism) contains little else but pages upon pages of Bible quotations.In a post from several years ago, I referred to this tactic as Shotgun Hermeneutics. Some people seem to think they can win theology debates by simply quoting a lot of Bible verses, as if the other person was not aware of those verses and had never read them in the Bible.
Usually, when Calvinists do this to me, I simply reply with a comment like this:
I am fully aware of all of these verses. I have read them many, many times, and I have deeply studied most of them in the Greek or Hebrew, as well as in their historical, cultural, and grammatical contexts. I simply have a different understanding of these verses than you do, and if you read some of the others posts on this blog, you will learn how I understand those texts you quoted.
Of course, Calvinists think their understanding of Scripture is the only valid one, and part of this is because of their appeals to tradition and authority.3. Appeals to Tradition and Authority
The final tactic that Calvinists often use to defend Calvinism is with appeals to tradition and authority. Usually, if you disagree with a Calvinist on the meaning of a particular Bible verse, rather than deal with the exegetical evidence that was prevented about the verse, they will say that your understanding is wrong, because it disagrees with what John Calvin, John Piper, or John MacArthur teaches (or some other Calvinist).
There is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out that other Bible teachers and scholars agree with your views, but the trouble comes in when some people seem ignorant of the fact that there are many good and respectable Bible teachers and scholars who disagree.
Furthermore, I always find it interesting that Calvinists praise men like Martin Luther and John Calvin for seeking to reform the traditional teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, but then condemn those who want to reform the traditional teachings of the Calvinistic system of theology.
Anyway, even though you can quote a bunch of scholars, authors, and Bible teachers who agree with your perspective, this does not prove that your view is correct.
Main Problem: A Lack of Grace
The main irony or problem with lots of the disagreement that comes from Calvinists is that it lacks grace.
Usually, when a Calvinist engages in the 3 tactics listed above, it is done with a complete lack of grace. I find this most troubling. Why is it that Calvinists, who claim to teach ‘The Doctrines of Grace” are so ungracious when dealing with those who disagree?
If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace? I think so.
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Hearing the word of God alone is not what causes regeneration. No one I know would claim that.
Hearing the Gospel is a means God uses to bring the person to faith and repentance, but it is accompanied by enlightenment by the Holy Spirit. No man can understand, at the heart level, the word of God unless God is opening their heart.
There are some groups who claim such things, though....I believe that the Church of Christ claims this if I'm not mistaken. They don't even believe the Christian has the Spirit of God if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not sure if it's the entire Church of God that teaches this, or the primitive Church of God guys called Campbellites.
Romans 8 would disprove that view.
Hearing the Gospel is a means God uses to bring the person to faith and repentance, but it is accompanied by enlightenment by the Holy Spirit. No man can understand, at the heart level, the word of God unless God is opening their heart.
There are some groups who claim such things, though....I believe that the Church of Christ claims this if I'm not mistaken. They don't even believe the Christian has the Spirit of God if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not sure if it's the entire Church of God that teaches this, or the primitive Church of God guys called Campbellites.
Romans 8 would disprove that view.
Romans 3:1-2, What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there in circumcision? Much every way, chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. There are many scriptures indicating the Jews dislike for the Gentiles.
Acts 10;28, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; But God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Matt 10:18, And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and against the Gentiles. Matt 20:19, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him, and the third day he shall rise again.
Acts 10;28, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; But God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Matt 10:18, And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and against the Gentiles. Matt 20:19, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him, and the third day he shall rise again.
Jacob's name was changed by God to be called Israel, Gen 33:28-29. Romans 9:11, For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to "election: might stand, not of works, but of him who calleth. Jacob/Israel is representative of the church of the elect.
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Galatians 3:7 7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Romans 9:6-8 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Who are the children of the promise? Note that this is addressed to a GENTILE church, and it says that they are children of the promise
Galatians 4:21-31 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31 So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
Romans 2:25-29 For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. 26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. 28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.
Philippians 3:3 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
Ephesians 2:11-22 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
Galatians 6:14-16 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Note that Peter uses the same language used of ancient Israel in regards to the Church, and equates non-believers with Gentiles, and additionally he identifies them as those who were not a people:
1 Peter 2:9-13 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 11 Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. 12 Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.
This is similar language that is used in regards to ancient Israel:
Exodus 19:4-6 4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; 6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.
I have given you verses to prove the association of Israel with the Church. The Church is the fulfillment of the type of Israel. However, I think it's a little more than that. It was like the scaffolding of the building that was leading to the Church.
By the way, the word "assembly" in the OT, used to refer to the Church, is the same word in the Septuagint (Greek OT translation). It is the ekklesia of the OT, which means "the Church".
Additionally, as I have consistently maintained, the doctrine of union with Christ affirms that believers are spiritual Israel. Every believer is joined with Jesus, and shares in his inheritance. He is the true son of Israel.
Galatians 3:7-29 7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. 15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. 19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (ESV)
I don't know if many dispensationalists understand what the doctrine of union with Christ teaches, and how that impacts the promises given to Abraham. It doesn't seem like they understand it from the resistance I've encountered.
{see continuation below}
Romans 9:6-8 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Who are the children of the promise? Note that this is addressed to a GENTILE church, and it says that they are children of the promise
Galatians 4:21-31 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31 So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
Romans 2:25-29 For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. 26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. 28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.
Philippians 3:3 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
Ephesians 2:11-22 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
Galatians 6:14-16 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Note that Peter uses the same language used of ancient Israel in regards to the Church, and equates non-believers with Gentiles, and additionally he identifies them as those who were not a people:
1 Peter 2:9-13 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 11 Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. 12 Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.
This is similar language that is used in regards to ancient Israel:
Exodus 19:4-6 4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; 6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.
I have given you verses to prove the association of Israel with the Church. The Church is the fulfillment of the type of Israel. However, I think it's a little more than that. It was like the scaffolding of the building that was leading to the Church.
By the way, the word "assembly" in the OT, used to refer to the Church, is the same word in the Septuagint (Greek OT translation). It is the ekklesia of the OT, which means "the Church".
Additionally, as I have consistently maintained, the doctrine of union with Christ affirms that believers are spiritual Israel. Every believer is joined with Jesus, and shares in his inheritance. He is the true son of Israel.
Galatians 3:7-29 7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. 15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. 19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (ESV)
I don't know if many dispensationalists understand what the doctrine of union with Christ teaches, and how that impacts the promises given to Abraham. It doesn't seem like they understand it from the resistance I've encountered.
{see continuation below}
{see previous remarks above}
Additionally, note that all the spiritual descendants of Abraham through faith receive the inheritance of the entire world:
Romans 4:1-16 1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” 9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Two significant facts here:
1. All of Abraham's offspring, Gentile and Jew, inherit the entire world.
2. This is through faith, which unites the believer with Christ, the true Israelite, who is a physical descendant of Abraham.
3. This inheritance is the entire world, not some tiny section of land in the Middle East. God has expanded the original promise.
Now, some might deny that this is a fulfillment of the promise to Israel, because it doesn't discuss the land of Israel specifically, but if God expands the promise to the whole globe, does he still fulfill the promise? Of course he does.
The biggest issue I have with dispensationalism is that it ignores the concept of union with Christ, which extends Israel past physical Israel to include spiritual descendants. This is related to union with Christ, which they seem to underappreciate or utterly ignore. The second biggest issue is claiming the 1000 years mentioned in Revelation 20 will basically continue the curse (albeit in a reduced manner) past the resurrection, which occurs when Jesus returns. According to 1 Corinthians 15, death is defeated once and for all at the resurrection. I do not believe the Bible teaches that evil men will exist after the return of Jesus, but will be utterly destroyed, and the righteous will have been resurrected or changed to a glorious form at that time. In other words, my position is that Jesus ushers in the eternal state (New Heavens/New Earth/New Creation/New Jerusalem) at that time.
Additionally, note that all the spiritual descendants of Abraham through faith receive the inheritance of the entire world:
Romans 4:1-16 1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” 9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Two significant facts here:
1. All of Abraham's offspring, Gentile and Jew, inherit the entire world.
2. This is through faith, which unites the believer with Christ, the true Israelite, who is a physical descendant of Abraham.
3. This inheritance is the entire world, not some tiny section of land in the Middle East. God has expanded the original promise.
Now, some might deny that this is a fulfillment of the promise to Israel, because it doesn't discuss the land of Israel specifically, but if God expands the promise to the whole globe, does he still fulfill the promise? Of course he does.
The biggest issue I have with dispensationalism is that it ignores the concept of union with Christ, which extends Israel past physical Israel to include spiritual descendants. This is related to union with Christ, which they seem to underappreciate or utterly ignore. The second biggest issue is claiming the 1000 years mentioned in Revelation 20 will basically continue the curse (albeit in a reduced manner) past the resurrection, which occurs when Jesus returns. According to 1 Corinthians 15, death is defeated once and for all at the resurrection. I do not believe the Bible teaches that evil men will exist after the return of Jesus, but will be utterly destroyed, and the righteous will have been resurrected or changed to a glorious form at that time. In other words, my position is that Jesus ushers in the eternal state (New Heavens/New Earth/New Creation/New Jerusalem) at that time.
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you're kidding
we are back to this again?
I've never tried reading backwards, but apparently some are rather proficient at it
we are back to this again?
I've never tried reading backwards, but apparently some are rather proficient at it
seeking the Truth of God in His Gospel. 😍
I have to respectfully disagree and find that your words are contradictory here, "there is no Jew or Gentile", right after you write, "They are still God's covenant people", they do not mesh. Was there not a "new covenant" made? The coming judgement written about was coming on the covenant breakers, and it came for them just like Jesus said it would. That covenant was ended with the destruction of everything they needed for their end of it. I know these next words are going to seem harsh, but it's the truth. Separating the Jew into some separate category as if Gods set them aside into some side class that doesn't need Jesus is hating the Jew strait up. No, they need Jesus just like everybody else on the planet now. This twisted doctrine putting the 70 ad judgement in the future causes this, causes people to have to think He is saving them like this for the future end. Guess what? They already did, this happen back then, and it was Jews that announced His kingdom come, it was also Jews that recorded all these events so we have them today. ANYONE who denies the Son denies the Father, period. Even Israel now. The Son calls ALL too Himself, just like you said there is no Jew or Gentile anymore, that AGE has ended and ALL Gods children are in and under the beautiful name of our Lord Jesus THE Christ. I plea for all Israelis, Jews, gentiles, all to come bow to their true King, the Savior of all, Jesus!!!! Man I love God!
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