Apostasy 101

Grandpa · Jan 19, 2020

No. Genuine believers can in no way stop believing in Christ.

What they can do is become confused by false prophets and do the works of an unbeliever. For a time.

But when correction comes they will understand and be corrected.

Otherwise, what is the point of the correction to begin with?

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

Grandpa said:

We will just keep showing you the scriptures Grandpa. Here are some again (Amplified Version) for additional effect. There can be NO doubt that this is talking about solid believers who have fallen away.

Hebrews 6
4 For [it is impossible to restore to repentance] those who have once been enlightened [spiritually] and who have [a]tasted and consciously experienced the heavenly gift and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted and consciously experienced the good word of God and the powers of the age (world) to come, 6 [b]and then have fallen away—it is impossible to bring them back again to repentance, since they again nail the Son of God on the cross [for as far as they are concerned, they are treating the death of Christ as if they were not saved by it], and are holding Him up again to public disgrace.

And below is a little more about the Amplified Bible translation (to give you more insight into the approach used).

Version Information

For this update to the Amplified Bible (AMP), the goal of the translation team was to enhance the appeal of the Amplified Bible by refreshing the English and refining the amplifications for relevance and clarity. The result is an Amplified Bible that is easier to read and better than ever to study and understand.

The Amplified Bible of 2015 includes more amplification in the Old Testament and refined amplification in the New Testament. Additionally, the Bible text has been improved to read smoothly with or without amplifications, so that the text may be read either way. The same feel and style of amplification has been maintained, so that those who read the classic Amplified Bible will be able to easily transition to the new text.

The AMP was the first Bible project of The Lockman Foundation. Its goal was to take both word meaning and context into account to accurately translate the original text from one language into another. The AMP does this through the use of explanatory alternate readings and amplifications to assist the reader in understanding what Scripture really says. Multiple English word equivalents to each key Hebrew and Greek word clarify and amplify meanings that may otherwise have been concealed by the traditional translation method. The first edition was published in 1965.

The AMP is based on the American Standard Version of 1901, Rudolph Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, the Greek text of Westcott and Hort, and the 23rd edition of the Nestle Greek New Testament as well as the best Hebrew and Greek lexicons available at the time. Cognate languages, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other Greek works were also consulted. The Septuagint and other versions were compared for interpretation of textual differences. In completing the Amplified Bible, translators made a determined effort to keep, as far as possible, the familiar wording of the earlier versions, and especially the feeling of the ancient Book.

Grandpa · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

We will just keep showing you the scriptures Grandpa. Here are some again (Amplified Version) for additional effect. There can be NO doubt that this is talking about solid believers who have fallen away.

Hebrews 6
4 For [it is impossible to restore to repentance] those who have once been enlightened [spiritually] and who have [a]tasted and consciously experienced the heavenly gift and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted and consciously experienced the good word of God and the powers of the age (world) to come, 6 [b]and then have fallen away—it is impossible to bring them back again to repentance, since they again nail the Son of God on the cross [for as far as they are concerned, they are treating the death of Christ as if they were not saved by it], and are holding Him up again to public disgrace.

And below is a little more about the Amplified Bible translation (to give you more insight into the approach used).

Version Information

For this update to the Amplified Bible (AMP), the goal of the translation team was to enhance the appeal of the Amplified Bible by refreshing the English and refining the amplifications for relevance and clarity. The result is an Amplified Bible that is easier to read and better than ever to study and understand.

The Amplified Bible of 2015 includes more amplification in the Old Testament and refined amplification in the New Testament. Additionally, the Bible text has been improved to read smoothly with or without amplifications, so that the text may be read either way. The same feel and style of amplification has been maintained, so that those who read the classic Amplified Bible will be able to easily transition to the new text.

The AMP was the first Bible project of The Lockman Foundation. Its goal was to take both word meaning and context into account to accurately translate the original text from one language into another. The AMP does this through the use of explanatory alternate readings and amplifications to assist the reader in understanding what Scripture really says. Multiple English word equivalents to each key Hebrew and Greek word clarify and amplify meanings that may otherwise have been concealed by the traditional translation method. The first edition was published in 1965.

The AMP is based on the American Standard Version of 1901, Rudolph Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, the Greek text of Westcott and Hort, and the 23rd edition of the Nestle Greek New Testament as well as the best Hebrew and Greek lexicons available at the time. Cognate languages, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other Greek works were also consulted. The Septuagint and other versions were compared for interpretation of textual differences. In completing the Amplified Bible, translators made a determined effort to keep, as far as possible, the familiar wording of the earlier versions, and especially the feeling of the ancient Book.

Keep posting scripture. I love scripture. And I will continue to show how your suppositions are incorrect.

It is IMPOSSIBLE, for those who have once been enlightened, IF they should fall away, to renew them to repentance.

It is IMPOSSIBLE because once a person is Born Again they can't be RE-Born Again. Once a Person is Saved they can't be RE-Saved. Its already a done deal.

This is something that CANNOT HAPPEN. Not something that frequently happens.

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

Grandpa said:

The Impossible is NOT linked to apostasy, the Impossible IS linked to Repentance.
Read it again. Simple English.

The Amplified bible fixes your erroneous thinking. That's why I posted it especially for you.

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

@Grandpa : would you agree that the translators of the Amplified Bible have a better understanding of Greek and Hebrew than what you have? Is that a fair statement to make?

Grandpa · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Yes. Its an IMPOSSIBLE situation.

Someone who has been enlightened doesn't fall away and need to be RE-Born again. Or Re-saved.

Its an IMPOSSIBLE scenario. IT CAN'T ever happen.

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

Grandpa said:

Do you actually read? Or are you just being silly on purpose?

Grandpa · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Your 6yr old grand-daughter has a better understanding of Greek and Hebrew than I do.

That doesn't mean they understand the words they are tranlating, as it relates to the Lord Jesus Christ, better than I do.

Grandpa · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

This isn't silly.

YOUR SUPPOSITION is wrong.

You are taking a "what if" situation and trying to make your IMAGINATION true.

Its not true. You and your suppositions are wrong. You've been shown plenty of scripture to PROVE why you are wrong but you are blind to them.

Melach · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

i need to actually see who translated it. i have never seen a bible where good people have translated it, its always some s0d0mite in there or someone wicked. even in my language finnish when you look at who is translating its questionable people. i think king james is the best

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

Grandpa said:

Wow, I can't believe you just typed that (in Red Above).
We are not talking about a new-agey translation here. We are talking about one of the greatest translations in terms of bringing out the true Greek and Hebrew into English in the best way possible (because there are not one-to-one word for word translations between Greek and English in many instances). Sometimes many words in English will convey the meaning of a single Greek word. Thats was the objective here. And NKJV and AMP version are in agreement. So are pretty much all others. Are you able to find another version of the bible that states what you (Grandpa version) are asserting?

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

Grandpa said:

Gramps, I mean this with respect, I believe you are the one that's totally blind on this. Why do you deny the scriptures? Heck, the bible even speaks about those who twist. Why don't you stop this silliness and come to the light. Why be included with those who twist and deceive?

Judges1318 · Jan 19, 2020

Grandpa said:

Show me where it says that.

Grandpa said:

All true for the present tense believer, not the former believer.
Sheep will never perish. That's why you should continue to be a sheep.

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

Melach said:

Melach - you can google search the following term together "Strongs Concordance KJV (and then followed by the book and chapter you are looking up)". This will bring up a link which you can click into. You will then get to see the original Greek and Hebrew upon which the scriptures are based. You are then able to click onto these underlying words which will give the meanings as translated into English using multiple angles, tenses, etc. Have a look.

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

Multiple Translations of Hebrews 6v4-6

KJV
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

NKJV
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [a]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

NASB
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [a]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

AMP
4 For [it is impossible to restore to repentance] those who have once been enlightened [spiritually] and who have [a]tasted and consciously experienced the heavenly gift and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted and consciously experienced the good word of God and the powers of the age (world) to come, 6 [b]and then have fallen away—it is impossible to bring them back again to repentance, since they again nail the Son of God on the cross [for as far as they are concerned, they are treating the death of Christ as if they were not saved by it], and are holding Him up again to public disgrace.

ESV
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

ASV
4 For as touching those who were once enlightened [a]and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and [b]tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; [c]seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

NLT
4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

RSV
4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

CEV
4-6 But what about people who turn away after they have already seen the light and have received the gift from heaven and have shared in the Holy Spirit? What about those who turn away after they have received the good message of God and the powers of the future world? There is no way to bring them back. What they are doing is the same as nailing the Son of God to a cross and insulting him in public!

Chris1975 · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Multiple Translations of Hebrews 6v4-6

KJV
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

NKJV
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [a]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

NASB
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [a]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

AMP
4 For [it is impossible to restore to repentance] those who have once been enlightened [spiritually] and who have [a]tasted and consciously experienced the heavenly gift and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted and consciously experienced the good word of God and the powers of the age (world) to come, 6 [b]and then have fallen away—it is impossible to bring them back again to repentance, since they again nail the Son of God on the cross [for as far as they are concerned, they are treating the death of Christ as if they were not saved by it], and are holding Him up again to public disgrace.

ESV
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

ASV
4 For as touching those who were once enlightened [a]and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and [b]tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; [c]seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

NLT
4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

RSV
4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

CEV
4-6 But what about people who turn away after they have already seen the light and have received the gift from heaven and have shared in the Holy Spirit? What about those who turn away after they have received the good message of God and the powers of the future world? There is no way to bring them back. What they are doing is the same as nailing the Son of God to a cross and insulting him in public!

@Grandpa - were all of these scholars, researchers, linguistic experts, language experts ---- were all of them wrong, but you right? Come on man. Stop wrestling with God and come into the light. Trust His word plainly. To be a house built up we need to be on a solid foundation. And your foundation has a large crack.

Grandpa · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

No. They are all correct.

And they are all stating the same thing.

THE IMPOSSIBILITY of what you are trying to show as possible.

You are trying to say "This is possible and this is why people lose their salvation".

But its NOT POSSIBLE. ITS IMPOSSIBLE.

I do trust God and His Word and that is PRECISELY why I am here to show you that your SUPPOSITION and IMAGINATION are wrong.

John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Do you think Paul is contradicting the Lord in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10? Or do you think its more likely that your imagination of what you THINK Paul is saying in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 is contradicting the Lord?

Read these words of the Lord a few times then go back and see what Paul is REALLY saying and who he is saying it to.

Grandpa · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Well, believe it.

The Jews wrote all of the OT scriptures. Yet they don't understand how those words apply to the Lord Jesus Christ.

A lot of NT commentaries are that way as well.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Why does this seem so surprising to you? I don't know Greek and I don't know Hebrew but I know Salvation. I UNDERSTAND the Word of the Lord unlike the "wise" men after the flesh and the "noble".

Grandpa · Jan 19, 2020

Chris1975 said:

I am showing how YOUR twisting of the scripture and YOUR supposition is incorrect.

I am showing how YOUR contradiction of the Lord with other scripture is the wrong way to go.

You don't understand how you are in unbelief of God and how you are contradicting His Word and how you try to do it with Scripture.

Believers see what you are trying to do. But you don't listen to them.

Melach · Jan 19, 2020

i tried to look but cant find who translated it. this is another problem today with new translations they dont even know who translated it. they say just "X Y or Z foundation" or company did it, but not individuals who did it. same with newest translation in my language

they are hiding who did it just like jehovah's witness translation. why cant these people be known?

back to king james bible

Apostasy 101

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