Apostasy 101

[oyster67]

Yes, especially about denying the Lord that bought us! There is a verse on this!

2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[Enxu]

I disagree and multiple translations say “believed” in Exodus 14:31.

Which is exactly what I said, they once believed (ie. it was a past event). But you assert they only seemingly believed. (a meaning entirely foreign to the verse) You are so wrapped up in your false knowledge you don’t see your own errors.

 

[gb9]

And I’m going to test whether they can’t see it or won’t see it.

you have already failed the test as to wheither or not God refused to allow Israel into the promised land, or if they refused to go.

you failed and ran away from a very easy question.

pass a test before you test others.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I disagree because the entire Bible, whenever it mentioned the word faith, only talked about true faith. Any form of false faith is automatically mentioned as unbelief (or dead faith) You are deceived.

The word faith in the Bible is also translated as belief.

It tells you in the Bible that even the demons believe (In God) and tremble

believe [that]—
πιστεύουσιν (pisteuousin)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 4100: From pistis; to have faith, i.e. Credit; by implication, to entrust.

but this is not the same as belief that saves.

Belief that saves is different than simple believing these things are real. One can in fact believe or have faith, without having believed unto salvation.

 

[Enxu]

you have already failed the test as to wheither or not God refused to allow Israel into the promised land, or if they refused to go.

you failed and ran away from a very easy question.

pass a test before you test others.

I didn’t run away from anything, I had too many posts to reply to. State your questions again.

 

[Melach]

If Noah was shipwrecked, we wouldn't be here today.

thats what we get for obedience? i wish i wouldnt be here lolz.

i have to go to the gym right now its not fun at all. should i be grateful to noah for obeying?

 

[Enxu]

The word faith in the Bible is also translated as belief.

It tells you in the Bible that even the demons believe (In God) and tremble

believe [that]—
πιστεύουσιν (pisteuousin)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 4100: From pistis; to have faith, i.e. Credit; by implication, to entrust.

but this is not the same as belief that saves.

Belief that saves is different than simple believing these things are real. One can in fact believe or have faith, without having believed unto salvation.

I did say dead faith is also mentioned in the Bible and James made it clear the faith of demons is dead faith.

 

[Noose]

The word faith in the Bible is also translated as belief.

It tells you in the Bible that even the demons believe (In God) and tremble

believe [that]—
πιστεύουσιν (pisteuousin)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 4100: From pistis; to have faith, i.e. Credit; by implication, to entrust.

but this is not the same as belief that saves.

Belief that saves is different than simple believing these things are real. One can in fact believe or have faith, without having believed unto salvation.

This is the faith that saves:

Luke 19:
8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, half of my possessions I give to the poor, and if I have cheated anyone, I will repay it fourfold.”

9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

[mailmandan]

Which is exactly what I said, they once believed (ie. it was a past event). But you assert they only seemingly believed. (a meaning entirely foreign to the verse) You are so wrapped up in your false knowledge you don’t see your own errors.

You still don’t get it. I am on the street now and will have to get back with you later and further prove my argument. It’s difficult for me to deliver mail and post on Christian Chat at the same time.

 

[Enxu]

Nothing is mentioned about them losing their salvation. The apostle Peter denied Jesus three times and was said to fall away, yet is Peter saved or lost? Sounds like a shipwreck to me but he survived.

You didn’t answer my question. Were they saved before they shipwrecked their faith?

 

[Enxu]

You still don’t get it. I am on the street now and will have to get back with you later and further prove my argument. It’s difficult for me to deliver mail and post on Christian Chat at the same time.

I do get what you mean and I’m saying it’s extra-Scriptural. Your interpretations change the meaning of the verse 31 in Exodus 14 altogether. Besides, James made it clear that faith of demons or any kind of faith that is false will never bring salvation, yet Israel was saved after their act of faith in Exodus 14. It is you who don’t get the contradiction of your beliefs.

 

[Chris1975]

You didn’t answer my question. Were they saved before they shipwrecked their faith?

Checkmate.

 

[oyster67]

Men get saved, then mess up their lives, and then come back to Jesus. How does this prove OSAS?

 

[Hazelelponi]

This is the faith that saves:

Luke 19:
8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, half of my possessions I give to the poor, and if I have cheated anyone, I will repay it fourfold.”

9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

And what have you done with the mina God gave to you?

(by the way, in Israel if you buried money entrusted to you, then if you lost it, it couldn't be held against you, but if you invested it in something, or didn't seek to hide it and lost it, then it was held against you and you were responsible to repay what was lost)

Do you know what the faith of Abraham is? It is complete trust in God, absolute and complete trust - which can show in multiple ways.

 

[JohnR7]

I don't know what you are talking about.

We are talking about how the promises of God are conditional. We have to make the right choices in life. God will not choose for us.

 

[oyster67]

We are talking about how the promises of God are conditional. We have to make the right choices in life. God will not choose for us.

..and it applies to life after being born again as well as before it

 

[Noose]

And what have you done with the mina God gave to you?

(by the way, in Israel if you buried money entrusted to you, then if you lost it, it couldn't be held against you, but if you invested it in something, or didn't seek to hide it and lost it, then it was held against you and you were responsible to repay what was lost)

Do you know what the faith of Abraham is? It is complete trust in God, absolute and complete trust - which can show in multiple ways.

All i know is Zaccheus had a change of heart towards others and decided to give what he had to them and thus salvation came to his household- this is faith that saves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That verse has nothing to do with either faith or salvation.

no, but it states a fact. any gift God gives is irrevocable. Salvation/eternal life are gifts. hence..

 

[Enxu]

no, but it states a fact. any gift God gives is irrevocable. Salvation/eternal life are gifts. hence..

Except eternal life has not yet been given to anyone, so no one is truly saved in that sense yet. It is a future promise at the resurrection for those who remained faithful.

 

[Enxu]

..and it applies to life after being born again as well as before it

There are so many “if” in the Gospel but OSAS advocates conveniently gloss them over.