Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Anyone who is going to go to a worker and tell the, that a child of God is capable of living in sin (not produce any works) is in effect telling them we can say a prayer and live however we want we are still saved, which is their whole argument against grace, your feeding them.

i can not and will not support that view

God changes lives, that’s WHY John said a child of God can not live in sin, if a person is living in sin, they have never met God those are johns words not mine

that is not lordship salvation, that’s the fact of scripture

true faith works, it will not be dead

it may never reach pauls level of works, but it will NOT remain workless, even a person who repents on their death bed praises God, admits they were sinners, and shares their faith and hope

that my friends, is works.

 

[BillG]

No,, I have no problem with it, my whole point is based off this verse

no one who is born of God loves a habitual lifestyle of sin, the English text is misleading,he is not talking about induvidual sins, he would be contradicting himself remember, in 1 John 1:8 he said if we say we have no sin we are decieved

Those addressed in Romans 5-6?
I can sin all I want and grace covers it??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe so... it lines up very well with Lordship salvation...... I have read many MacArthur's books, similar line of reasoning and interpretation.

Lordship salvation teaches a person must do works, not that they Willard if people do not live a certain way, they must not be saved, I do not teach this.

if your gonna tell people like PS Chris and others a child of God will never do works and thus can live in sin and still be saved.

ugh!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those addressed in Romans 5-6?
I can sin all I want and grace covers it??

Does a child of God wish to sin? (Rom 7)

 

[BillG]

Does a child of God wish to sin? (Rom 7)

Nope.
If a person claims faith and uses grace as an excuse to sin and is corrected per Romans and rejects it then are they a child of God?

Nope

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope.
If a person claims faith and uses grace as an excuse to sin and is corrected per Romans and rejects it then are they a child of God?

Nope

how can they be? What proof have they repented?

 

[Hevosmies]

Anyone who is going to go to a worker and tell the, that a child of God is capable of living in sin (not produce any works) is in effect telling them we can say a prayer and live however we want we are still saved, which is their whole argument against grace, your feeding them.

i can not and will not support that view

God changes lives, that’s WHY John said a child of God can not live in sin, if a person is living in sin, they have never met God those are johns words not mine

that is not lordship salvation, that’s the fact of scripture

true faith works, it will not be dead

it may never reach pauls level of works, but it will NOT remain workless, even a person who repents on their death bed praises God, admits they were sinners, and shares their faith and hope

that my friends, is works.

GLAD I aint the only one to notice EleventhHour is in some SERIOUS error. This is exactly why I said in my previous post about a week ago or something that SHE JUST PROVED all the OSAS opponents right by claiming what she did. WAY TO GO! All their criticism is actually CORRECT in the case of EleventhHour. BUT HEY, im placing my bet on the fact that she is so far in error that she will NEVER give up this false doctrine, which is why I wont be debating it, there is no debate or no discussion to be had its a SEALED deal and simple Scripture will prove her theory wrong, but what can ya do when its either ignored or twisted.

LUCKY FOR ME: I dont hold to that view, I hold to PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS. Eternal security of the believer, I believe in the GOD who gets thing DONE and is sanctifying His people not MAYBE sanctifying, not TRYING to sanctify, but actually succeeds!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

how can they be? What proof have they repented?

Paul Fought legalism

James is fighting licentiousness

its why they appear to be contradicting each other. They are not

 

[eternally-gratefull]

GLAD I aint the only one to notice EleventhHour is in some SERIOUS error. This is exactly why I said in my previous post about a week ago or something that SHE JUST PROVED all the OSAS opponents right by claiming what she did. WAY TO GO! All their criticism is actually CORRECT in the case of EleventhHour. BUT HEY, im placing my bet on the fact that she is so far in error that she will NEVER give up this false doctrine, which is why I wont be debating it, there is no debate or no discussion to be had its a SEALED deal and simple Scripture will prove her theory wrong, but what can ya do when its either ignored or twisted.

LUCKY FOR ME: I dont hold to that view, I hold to PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS. Eternal security of the believer, I believe in the GOD who gets thing DONE and is sanctifying His people not MAYBE sanctifying, not TRYING to sanctify, but actually succeeds!

I do not hold to calvinism my friend

and I will not judge my sister, just try to get her to understand me, as it seems she still does not

 

[Hevosmies]

I do not hold to calvinism my friend

and I will not judge my sister, just try to get her to understand me, as it seems she still does not

Gotta love it. Well maybe one of you will bend or you can reach some antinomian (i mean uhh... free grace cause thats what grace totally is right eleventhhour?) compromise?

To hold to that ones gotta be ABSOLUTELY spiritually and mentally FRIED.

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4119995 For those interested in what the original perseverance of the saints was as taught by the reformers, not modern day loser teachers who will never amount to anything.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Well you have a problem with this verse then if you do not see the dual nature he is speaking to

Chapter 3 verse 9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in Him.....

And don't forget this verse also (along with that ^ ):

"But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." - 1 Corinthians 6:17



[to be clear: we are in agreement, in that, neither of us hold to "one naturism"]

 

[VCO]

No?....You are the one saying Jesus knew them!
I said they believed THEY knew Jesus. Never said n'ary a word concerning Jesus EVER "knowing them!"

See how even now, you must "twist" words, to keep your "eternal security" agenda? This only comes from the "author of confusion!"

Here, I'll explain it so simply? That any "child of light" can understand it.

If the real Jesus didn't know them?

The "jesus" they really believed?

Couldn't have been the real Jesus, now could it?

If it wasn't the real Jesus? Then, it was the FALSE jesus!

The spirit of anti-christ! Is WHO they REALLY BELIEVED!

IOW? They believed a LIE!

And that, is HOW ya spell DELUSION!

Am "hoping" you understand it too!

HEY! You are looking in a mirror at your own beliefs.

 

[VCO]

i hope i wont wake up tomorrow lolz. how bad are the aches and pains? also i believe thats why many people retire at places like florida because its warm. so maybe there they can get warm enough.

i was just reading a study that said that warm weather is actually better for our bodies. i still enjoy winter here in finland.

Way more than Dad ever warned me about. I guess I kinda expected the feeling I am running out of gas mid-day, but now I have an excuse for a mid day NAP. My favorite part of the day now. HOWEVER, it is frustrating that I have to write a list for THREE items from the grocery store, or I will forget the 2 out 3 Items by the time I get to the store. Some of it is because of old age, and some of it is because I have had 5 mini strokes and 2 big ones in the last 4 years. So maybe you can remember 2 out 3 grocery items, .

 

[Rosemaryx]

Okay listen.. I respect you desire to discuss this so I will come back to it .. my cupboard is bare so I have to go out.

We have discussed this multiple times... I really do not know what else to say within the limitations of a discussion board.

Always going to they were never believers ( Mr John MacArthur theology) really creates a lot problems for OSAS and coming to grips with the fact that salvation is a gift no strings attached.

JM does preach no strings attached whatsoever , he preaches by faith alone through grace alone...
All preachers make different points that not all agree , ( not talking about false preachers ) but I believe JM is a true man of God...xox...

 

[DeighAnn]

I was given a gift. It was the most beautiful cut crystal ball that reflected light that shined on it in every direction. It promised to bring me a life time of amazing light, I truly loved and cherished it more than anything else I possessed for many years. It required no maintenance what so ever. It was solid and durable and would last for forever and always shine that beautiful light in my life.

One day I had a really bad experience, and for some reason I blamed it on the crystal ball. I was sure that crystal ball could have stopped that bad thing from happening to me for WHAT EVER reason. I grew to hate that crystal ball. So I took a metal bat and beat and smashed it until it was nothing but teeny tiny shards of glass and threw it in the trash and not once, not even on my dying day did I ever swerve from that hatred of it.

Did I receive that gift? Did I truly love the gift? Did the gift remain the same or did the gift change? If that ball would have had the power to shine for me again, do you think it OWED IT to me, because I accepted it as a gift? Was it REQUIRED, no recourse what so ever, even seeing how I truly felt, hated it and threw it out of my life?

This is my example of what some call "working to maintain" because I believe it can be lost or thrown away vs the doctrine of the forever owed a perfect crystal by the giver, once one has been accepted by a recipient.

You see, I do believe that had I kept that ball, and loved and cherished it as I should have, it would have remained in the very state it was forever. If I choose not to take some cleaner and clean it, it would lose its shine, get crud all over it, and lose a bit of the grandeur I first saw in it but it would none the less remain the same as the day I received it.

So I don't believe "it has to be maintained"

JUST AS I DON'T BELIEVE THAT
Believing it can be lost, MUST MEAN, HAS TO MEAN, CAN ONLY MEAN, it must be maintained because it doesn't. That is not true to the truth.

But I am sure there are those who will NOT BE ABLE TO GRASP THE SPIRIT of this, and can only understand the letter of it and bring all of the captives back into captivity.


Matthew 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Matthew 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

But no matter what divides us here and now

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[VCO]

I got a Special Blessing singing this song in CHURCH today, and tears were flowing out of my Eyes, as I SANG IT TO HIM.

 

[Discern]

This verse simply says,

if you trusted Christ, you are saved. Unless you believed in vein (Ie,the belief of James, Ie mental agreement)

ie, I believe Jesus, but did I trust him?

if I trusted him, I will hold firmly to the word,

if I just believed, I will not hold on to the word. Because trust never entered my mind,

Yes. That’s the way I understand it too

 

[Discern]

But your body is going to give you some BAD Surprises soon.

Aches,
Pains,
Arthritis,
Memory Loss,
Extra Trips to the Restroom,
Can't get warm enough,
Etc.
Etc.

I personally already have all of those. But I still have the joy!

 

[VCO]

I personally already have all of those. But I still have the joy!

Same here, and the Joy is wonderful. Can you imagine how great it will feel when we are in heaven!

 

[VCO]

Yes I had that fear and then I was born again and now I have passed from death to life.

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death.