Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull said:
I have to get to church I will just say this

a person who has no works is like a person who continues to live in sin, they show no changed life. They live (even in the church) like the world does, always promoting self, no love, selfish, working for gain, not for service.

john tells us these people have never seen or known God,

paul says those saved by faith will do works

james Is just staying a fact, if you claim to have faith, but do not have the works paul said you will have, or the change in life John said you will have (works) your faith is dead, unable to save. powerless
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Paul states they "should" not will

"Will" is Calvinism which is fine if that if what you believe, I think Calvin was wrong and used this method of interpretation as a means of control over his congregants.
 
EleventhHour said:
A new Christian may not have works but they are still saved.
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if you are a christian your works are not filthy rags as ephesians 2:10 says. everyone does something good sometimes. even hitler or stalin had their moments where they did something we would consider good like help someone or whatever
 
eternally-gratefull said:
James was posing a question of test your faith to see if it is real or if you just believe, if you believe that is good, even demons believe

the 1st few chapters of James is James telling his readers to test their own faith
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Chapter 2 verse 18..... Yea a man may say...

James is clearly responding to those who are attempting to argue that faith/belief is not sufficient to save.

James then very clearly responds to this is in line 21 using Abraham as an example of faith being demonstrated by works to men.... he was called a friend of God by men.
Scripture does not teach spurious faith... faith is faith.
 
PS said:
Dead faith is no faith. It is subtle talk like that caused Adam and Eve to disobey God. The warnings against losing faith are given to people who have faith. Do you think the apostles are going to be warning people of no faith about losing their faith. That would be sheer stupidity.
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Like I have stated numerous times.. the correct foundation is essential to understanding scripture... that correct understanding is OSAS.
 
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EleventhHour said:
Like I have stated numerous times.. the correct foundation is essential to understanding scripture... that correct understanding is OSAS.
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Just a bald and erroneous statement. See here http://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/losing-salvation.htm


Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him (Jas 4:12)
which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mat 10:28 KJV. (Said to the disciples.)

The one false teachers should fear is God.
 
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EleventhHour said:
Yes I had that fear and then I was born again and now I have passed from death to life.:)
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Jesus said it to the disciples as a warning against falling away.

The disciples died for their faith, other believers are not so secure. I am glad you are secure in the faith, but you cannot speak for others.

The one who can condemn even someone who believes is God.
 
JohnW34 said:
The gospel I share is the gospel of Acts 2. So if you judge this you are judging the apostles, so get your facts straight.
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Maybe this is why you are so mistaken in your Theology. You do not have the ONE TRUE foundation.

THIS, is THE Gospel unto Salvation. If you add or alter it in ANY way, you are accursed:



THE Gospel unto Salvation:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.
 
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PS said:
Jesus said it to the disciples as a warning against falling away.

The disciples died for their faith, other believers are not so secure. I am glad you are secure in the faith, but you cannot speak for others.

The one who can condemn even someone who believes is God.
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Everyone who is born from above is secure PS... this is the most secure absolutely reality there is on planet earth.
 
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mailmandan said:
Amen! The demons believe "mental assent" that "their is one God," (James 2:19) but they do not believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8)
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They don't believe Jesus died for THEM. They KNOW He died for US. That is why they hate and harass humans so much. Jesus did not become an Angel or demon. He is a human Being. They are ineligible for eternal life.
 
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VCO said:
Do you know that KJV was not a new Translation never translated from the original language manuscripts, the 1611 version was a Paraphrase? It was Paraphrase version to update the English Language that was outdated when King James authorized, and to CORRECT know errors in the 5 or 6 older English Translations. Her is the proof in the 1611 KJV, translation Teams words.

Quote: The Original Preface of the 1611 King James Version


Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .​
. . .​

rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church,​
. . .

It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correc- tion; . . . { KNOWN ERRORS in the Septuagint } . . . that the Seventy were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to add to the Original, and sometimes to take from it;​

. . .​
(and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it;​

. . . But now the Latin Translations were too many to be all good, for they were infinite . . .​

Again they were not out of the Hebrew fountain (we speak of the Latin Translations of the Old Testament) but out of the Greek stream, therefore the Greek being not altogether clear, the Latin derived from it must needs be muddy.​
. . .

so, if we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; . . .​

being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .​

Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Taanslations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } . . .​

But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them . . .​

Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . .but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .​


{ That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. AND very few KJV Only People ever read the 1611 Original Preface. }​
http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm

​
​
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Very interesting. Thank you sir!
 
PS said:
God the man (Jesus) did not have eternal life until he rose again.

Will people please stop making stuff up.
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???!!!

John 10:
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
 
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EleventhHour said:
Everyone who is born from above is secure PS... this is the most secure absolutely reality there is on planet earth.
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So Paul was wrong to warn Timothy about making a shipwreck of his faith.

“This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck” (I Timothy 1:18-19).

(A person cannot make a shipwreck of their faith unless they first believe.)
 
PennEd said:
Maybe this is why you are so mistaken in your Theology. You do not have the ONE TRUE foundation.

THIS, is THE Gospel unto Salvation. If you add or alter it in ANY way, you are accursed:



THE Gospel unto Salvation:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.
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Answer me some questions if you will PennEd?

What does "the fullness of the gentiles" mean to you?

What will it "look" like?

What "signs", or "works :eek:" would one "see", or "expect" to see, as "evidence" to indicating such?

Will it "come" as a "thief in the night?"

Would it "provoke Israel to jealousy?"
 
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