Not By Works

[mailmandan]

Hebrews 5
9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

-This scripture means EXACTLY what it says. No filter necessary through erroneous paradigms.
-obedience is after first belief. Obedience is ongoing.
-Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not DO what I say?
-2Thess2v13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Filter and erroneous paradigms? So you disagreed with my post? There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. Justification 2. Sanctification 3. Glorification.

Believers are sanctified and obedience/practicing righteousness and not sin is ongoing and characterizes those who are born of God.

This does not mean that believers never stumble and are perfectly obedient/sinless, without fault or defect, 100% of time. Do you subscribe to sinless perfection?

 

[dcontroversal]

My bible has the very important Saviour/Messiah in it from start to finish.....yours on the hand is some abridged version with only two covers I think.

HAHAHAHHHAHAHHA True story.....I was asked to speak at this one particular location in the 90's and there were about 650 people there....I had a bible that I had worn out, rebound and had worn it out a second time through study and usage and many of the pages were loose and or whole sections loose.....in the middle of my lesson and having seen God's people reject some truths at times i ripped into them and said....SOME of you might as well take your bibles and rip these truths right out and cast it to the floor and then stomp on it....as I said this I took from about Romans to Ephesians, ripped it out and chunked it over my shoulder into the "choir area".......YOU could have heard a pin drop..........and while speaking I blared LOUDLY that the JUDGEMENT from GOD falls like lightning to the ground and I hit the pulpit as I said this....and at the very micro second my hand boomed on the pulpit LIGHTNING SMOKED the massive oak next to the church building, thunder shook the building and killed the power...I had to finish the message by candle light.......I can tell you that that night MANY woke the h--- up........to this day my brother who was there speaks of this.......it was all GOD and he definitely made his point!

 

[Chris1975]

I believe 2Th2:13 says, "unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"


...the bold/underline, as I understand it, is referring to the "positional 'sanctification' [/'set apart']" thing.

Romans 12
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

It is a process.

 

[EleventhHour]

I made the word DAILY big for you.

Yes and we should daily identify with the object of our faith.... Jesus ....and His plan of redemption because Jesus did it all.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Romans 10:3-4 -

3 For being ignorant of the righteousness of God and seeking to establish the own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God.

4 For the end of Law is Christ unto righteousness to everyone believing.

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul called Corinth to repent, which they did and abandon the sinful behaviour they followed.
If they had not repented they would have lost their position.

No they wouldn't have pal....they would have been chastened as SONS......and do not address me with your drivel take your JESUS devaluing false blather to your own thread. I for one am sick of you dragging my Savior through the mud!

 

[dcontroversal]

You are the only one laughing, or have you not noticed, you read in so much that is not there.
It is like a man punching at shadows.

And another thing....if you want to lip flap....have facts on your side, he is indeed mocking and laughing at the truth genius

 

[JohnW34]

The person who is truly born again has died at the foot of the cross with Jesus and then born again into new life with Him.

Keep coming against me no worries... I am a mild mannered person generally speaking but for the Gospel I do not back down.

Many come to Christ because it feels right, and later wander away.
If you set reality as a flash event, you end up with fake reality honoured by God, which is nonsense.

Gods elect are secure, but only at the end do we see the everlasting fruit. The apostles wanted to
encourage all to stay faithful and not ruin their faith. It is not simple, but then we are Gods hands alone.

 

[Chris1975]

Filter and erroneous paradigms? So you disagreed with my post? There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. Justification 2. Sanctification 3. Glorification.

Believers are sanctified and obedience/practicing righteousness and not sin is ongoing and characterizes those who are born of God.

This does not mean that believers never stumble and are perfectly obedient/sinless, without fault or defect, 100% of time. Do you subscribe to sinless perfection?

No problem with what you have written here.
But I come back to the question for you to answer (Y/N) below:
If someone, who calls themself a Christian, actively living in sin without seeing the need for repentance dies, is that person saved or not? Just a Y/N answer please?

 

[Lightskin]

So by what you are saying: A person gets saved at a point in time and now he stays saved, but that is not staying saved.

LOL! I was trying to speak of understanding what a person says in English. You are bringing in theological biases ("an acronym"), and you may do that if you wish. I hold no hard feelings . . .

I couldn’t care less what you hold or don’t hold as long as you’re saved.

 

[EleventhHour]

HAHAHAHHHAHAHHA True story.....I was asked to speak at this one particular location in the 90's and there were about 650 people there....I had a bible that I had worn out, rebound and had worn it out a second time through study and usage and many of the pages were loose and or whole sections loose.....in the middle of my lesson and having seen God's people reject some truths at times i ripped into them and said....SOME of you might as well take your bibles and rip these truths right out and cast it to the floor and then stomp on it....as I said this I took from about Romans to Ephesians, ripped it out and chunked it over my shoulder into the "choir area".......YOU could have heard a pin drop..........and while speaking I blared LOUDLY that the JUDGEMENT from GOD falls like lightning to the ground and I hit the pulpit as I said this....and at the very micro second my hand boomed on the pulpit LIGHTNING SMOKED the massive oak next to the church building, thunder shook the building and killed the power...I had to finish the message by candle light.......I can tell you that that night MANY woke the h--- up........to this day my brother who was there speaks of this.......it was all GOD and he definitely made his point!

Just amazing ...love it when God drives a point home!

 

[Chris1975]

Romans 10:3-4 -

3 For being ignorant of the righteousness of God and seeking to establish the own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God.

4 For the end of Law is Christ unto righteousness to everyone believing.

For sure it is Christ's righteousness that JUSTIFIES.
In terms of SANCTIFICATION, we have a part to play in that. Aligning your will to that of God. Obedience is part and parcel.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Romans 12
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

It is a process.

Depending on context, "sanctification" can refer to any one of the three: 1) positional sanctification [/set-apart-ness (accomplished by Him/the Spirit)]; 2) progressive sanctification (this is the "process" aspect you are speaking of); or 3) "ultimate sanctification" (i.e. glorification).

Again, I believe 2Th2:13 is speaking of #1 (rather than the "process/progressive" aspect that you are using it to say).

 

[mailmandan]

No problem with what you have written here.
But I come back to the question for you to answer (Y/N) below:
If someone, who calls themself a Christian, actively living in sin without seeing the need for repentance dies, is that person saved or not? Just a Y/N answer please?

It sounds to me like you are describing a “nominal” Christian who is practicing sin. Such a person who practices sin and see’s no need for repentance is not saved according to 1 John 3:9-10.

 

[EleventhHour]

Many come to Christ because it feels right, and later wander away.
If you set reality as a flash event, you end up with fake reality honoured by God, which is nonsense.

Gods elect are secure, but only at the end do we see the everlasting fruit. The apostles wanted to
encourage all to stay faithful and not ruin their faith. It is not simple, but then we are Gods hands alone.

Hmm ... God's elect are secure from beginning to end.

 

[Chris1975]

It sounds to me like you are describing a “nominal” Christian who is practicing sin. Such a person who practices sin and see’s no need for repentance is not saved according to 1 John 3:9-10.

Do you believe that there are nominal Christians on this forum (no names, just as a general question)?

And if so, do you believe that God's warnings are useful for their edification and exhortation?

 

[JohnW34]

No they wouldn't have pal....they would have been chastened as SONS......and do not address me with your drivel take your JESUS devaluing false blather to your own thread. I for one am sick of you dragging my Savior through the mud!

Sounds like you want to dictate your view of faith, not share it openly.
Paul is our example, who just shared and testified to His Lord, Amen

 

[JohnW34]

Hmm ... God's elect are secure from beginning to end.

The problem is only God knows who they actually are. But maybe you can help Him a little with that......

 

[Chris1975]

Depending on context, "sanctification" can refer to any one of the three: 1) positional sanctification [/set-apart-ness (accomplished by Him/the Spirit)]; 2) progressive sanctification (this is the "process" aspect you are speaking of); or 3) "ultimate sanctification" (i.e. glorification).

Again, I believe 2Th2:13 is speaking of #1 (rather than the "process/progressive" aspect that you are using it to say).

So which of the 3 above is the category of sanctification mentioned below, in your opinion? Or do we go and create a new category?

Hebrews 10
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

 

[EleventhHour]

Paul called Corinth to repent, which they did and abandon the sinful behaviour they followed.
If they had not repented they would have lost their position.

Why did affirm my statement that the elect are secure ...when here you plainly contradict it?