There are no scriptures in context that teach a believer losing faith to the point of losing salvation....NONE!
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1) OSAS lifts Romans 11:29 out of it's context. The context is God not changing his mind about doing for future Israelites what past and present Israelites have rejected. It has nothing to do with a person continuing to be saved because God can't take back the gift he gave them.
2) Matthew 18:23-35 shows us how in the kingdom of heaven the free gift of forgiveness will be taken back by the Father.
With the exception of being saved by faith, all of these have been categorically denied in this thread.
"the evidence of things not seen" - Hebrews 11:1
We are saved through the evidence of things not seen, if you believe in that evidence. Most people don't believe in the evidence of things not seen that God has shown them by the Holy Spirit and reject it, calling Him a liar. A few do believe it and are saved as a result.
How?
For starters, your premise is wrong.
The gifts are able to be revoked for the individual person (Matthew 18:23-35).
As Jesus himself says, God is able to change his mind about giving someone the free gift of forgiveness.
What he will not change his mind about is the promises he has made to the descendants of Abraham even though most of them have rejected the promises and are lost.
That chapter about the promises still being good for unbelieving Israel has nothing to do with an individual person being in unbelief and somehow still being saved.
Right.
Your belief makes Jesus' faithfulness applicable to you.
Faith is how you access the faithful and never ending ministry of Christ (Romans 5:1).
That's why you have to continue to believe in it to continue to have the benefit of it.
That's what he told the Galatians.
Believers do not lose the choice to hold fast to Christ in faith.
The saved Galatians exercised their freedom to depart from faith in Christ for justification and went back to the law for justification.
And Paul expressed concern that he had wasted all his effort on them.
Which shows us he did not believe 1) that they remained saved despite their rejection of Christ, or 2) that they would categorically and without exception come back to faith in Christ.
See, in osas, there would be no consideration whatsoever about having wasted time and effort on saved people who fall because they always, in the end, will be saved. Obviously, Paul did not believe that.
He was not saying they no longer believed in Him as the Messiah.
They lacked faith in the power to expel demons.
I noticed years ago that this was a common misunderstanding among Christians. There is faith in Christ for salvation, and there is faith in Christ for daily provision. You won't go to hell for lacking in faith for daily provision (he remains faithful when we are faithless). But you will go to hell if you lack faith in Christ for salvation (if you deny him he will deny you).
January 28th will be 34 years for me.April 2006 will be 14 years since the glorious day I was regenerated spiritually. To those here who have
experienced the same, grace mercy and peace be multiplied to you!
What a awesome, all loving, and merciful God we serve.
And it went something like this...
"God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified" - Luke 18:13,14
It is entirely an act of God's grace that he showed us 'the evidence of things not seen' through the testimony of the Holy Spirit in our hearts so we could then place our trust in the unseen and be saved.
Anybody who's tried will find that out, if they're honest.
That's why I got saved.
I realized I had no place with God when I died, and that I couldn't do the righteous things God required.
So by faith I cast myself on his mercy, and he saved me.
The change occurred immediately.
I've been growing in righteous works ever since.
And I found out that the key to having good works is to have the fruit of the Spirit flourishing inside of you first.
This just made me realize that you too believe that a person can go back to unbelief and they are still saved. Because you believe that the unbelief will not be permanent in the one who has genuinely believed and been saved.
I only believe that there is still hope for the person who has gone back to unbelief if they respond to whatever attempt, if any, God makes to bring them back. But after that......they're out for good with no opportunity to come back. That's why we shouldn't play around with unbelief, like the Galatians did. We will find out one day if they responded to God's call to come back to faith in Christ for justification. Paul wondered if they would. He didn't say they would.
And that grace is being given "the evidence of things not seen". He is gracious that way to all men, so they can then place their trust in what they can not see and be saved. But most cast the evidence they have received aside and are lost.
Correct. They may lapse, but Jesus heals their backsliding.
. Btw, I never said “lose salvation” 
Not by me. But why did you omit the parts about the necessary works being Christ’s works. That was the best part of the post?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
A sheep is still sheep, and belongs to god
a dog is still a dog, and belongs to satan, he enjoys eating his vomit (the fruit of his sin)
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
If works are NECESSARY, and not a natural pay product of faith, then we are and continue to save ourselves by works.
the word necessary is a dangerous word my friend
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
AgainNot by me. But why did you omit the parts about the necessary works being Christ’s works. That was the best part of the post?
works are not necessary, they are natural
saying they are necessary makes them a requirment for salvation. Makes it salvation by works.
Don’t be fooled by Ralphie here, he is promoting works as amens of maintaining salvation, not as the natural result of entrusting our lives to Christ and learning to trust him in areas of our life. Ie, true saving faith not just mere belief.