Not By Works

[BillG]

I think you have been deceived..... OSAS is the only position from which a person freely serves God.... the dangerous risk is absolutely and only on the side of those who preach against the complete and irrevocable salvation because they contradict Truth.


New King James Version
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Romans 4:4

Well said.

OSAS IS THE ONLY POSITION FROM WHICH A PERSON FREELY SERVES GOD.

Not only that we know we serve God out of love for what he has done for us.

Jesus said "If you love me you will keep my commandments"

We do it freely because we are saved.
Saved unto good works.
And what a privilege to be used by our Lord.

 

[John146]

Very clear.

Are you saying salvation is lost through adultery? That would also mean any unclean thought. God help us all. Oh yeah, He has by forever imputing His righteousness to us.

 

[John146]

Amen about sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption! (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30) So what about Hebrews and James according to your view in regards to OSAS?

During the tribulation, salvation can be lost by taking the mark. There is no more forgiveness at that point. One must endure to the end to be physically saved through the tribulation into the millennium.

James makes it clear that at least some of his audience is not saved and needed to receive the word and have their souls saved.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

 

[Melach]

It is dangerous to teach gullible young believers that you just have to "believe" and then it's ok to go on sinning.

im glad i have never seen anyone teach that yet. thats great.

 

[oyster67]

Amen about sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption! (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30) So what about Hebrews and James according to your view in regards to OSAS?

I just think that it shows that there are hyper-ditches on both sides of the road.

 

[John146]

Galations 5
5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

"...they that do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God." (See Col. 3:24; Eph. 5:4; 1 Cor. 6:9) The context of these verses is the loss of rewards or inheritances for Christians at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I Cor. 3:13-16 "shall suffer loss." Salvation is not at stake.

 

[Chris1975]

Yup, and Jesus has all those covered. AMEN!!

So why did Paul have to rehash these if they were covered already in the OT? @EleventhHour.

 

[Chris1975]

"...they that do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God." (See Col. 3:24; Eph. 5:4; 1 Cor. 6:9) The context of these verses is the loss of rewards or inheritances for Christians at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I Cor. 3:13-16 "shall suffer loss." Salvation is not at stake.

Lol

 

[Chris1975]

"...they that do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God." (See Col. 3:24; Eph. 5:4; 1 Cor. 6:9) The context of these verses is the loss of rewards or inheritances for Christians at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I Cor. 3:13-16 "shall suffer loss." Salvation is not at stake.

So basically rape and murder a different person everyday, and at the judgement seat your mansion is not as fancy?

 

[Chris1975]

Are you saying salvation is lost through adultery? That would also mean any unclean thought. God help us all. Oh yeah, He has by forever imputing His righteousness to us.

Put to death those thoughts by the grace He has given us.

 

[DoY]

Only those who preach against grace as completely sufficient are the one who redefine belief so that works need to be added to support salvation.

.

It is BECAUSE I understand how profound the free gift of Salvation by Grace through Faith (and not of works) is, and out of a deep love for Him, that I so sincerely strive to flee from sin in my life. Intimacy and relationship with Him and His Word has taught me how beautiful His loving instructions (commandments) are. The resulting blessings and intimacy with the Father through Jesus Christ has been profound and immeasurable in my life, and that of my family. I pray that ALL would be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).

May the Lord bless you as you build an intimate personal relationship with Him, and may all who diligently seek Him be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding (Colossians 1:9)

 

[DoY]

I think you have been deceived..... OSAS is the only position from which a person freely serves God.... the dangerous risk is absolutely and only on the side of those who preach against the complete and irrevocable salvation because they contradict Truth.


New King James Version
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Romans 4:4

It's a pity so many don't understand the difference between justification, sanctification and glorification, but throw the word "saved" out without defining it properly. So much double-speak in all the various camps....creating more confusion and strife.

 

[EleventhHour]

It's a pity so many don't understand the difference between justification, sanctification and glorification, but throw the word "saved" out without defining it properly. So much double-speak in all the various camps....creating more confusion and strife.

No double speak on my part....... and I understand each very well because of diligent study.... Why you might ask....... because of people like yourself who teach salvation is maintained and revocable.

The strife is because of those who contend against a false gospel and that is by absolute necessity on our part ......because history has shown over and over again that truth must be protected.

 

[DoY]

Well said.

OSAS IS THE ONLY POSITION FROM WHICH A PERSON FREELY SERVES GOD.

Not only that we know we serve God out of love for what he has done for us.

Jesus said "If you love me you will keep my commandments"

We do it freely because we are saved.
Saved unto good works.
And what a privilege to be used by our Lord.

If only OSAS proponents would make that clear from the start - that good works/obedience flow from gratitude and love. Unfortunately many don't and now we have this perverse complacency in the church, and a false belief that continued sin is ok.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!
New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This gem was a part of our family bible study this morning:
"For the love of money is a root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have been led astray and have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves through with many acute [mental] pangs.

But as for you man of God, flee from all these things; aim at and pursue righteousness (right standing with and true goodness), godliness (which is the loving fear of God and being Christlike), faith, love, steadfastness (patience), and gentleness of heart. Fight the good fight of the faith; lay hold of the eternal life to which you were summoned and [for which] you confessed the good confession [of faith] before many witnesses." 1 Timothy 6:10-12

And from a few days ago we were in Luke 12:15, "And He said to them, Guard yourselves and keep free from all covetousness (the immoderate desire for wealth, the greedy longing to have more); for a man's life does not consist in and is not derived from possessing overflowing abundance or that which is over and above his needs."

Money is just one issue among hundreds that has caused countless numbers to "wander from the faith" in this deeply materialistic society. In the world and of it. We are not saved by works. Being saved we live differently, as strangers and aliens. Citizens of our home country and only ambassadors of that Government here.

 

[EleventhHour]

Intimacy and relationship with Him and His Word has taught me how beautiful His loving instructions (commandments) are.

It has taught me how about the all sufficiency of His Work and His Grace.

 

[DoY]

No double speak on my part....... and I understand each very well because of diligent study.... Why you might ask....... because of people like yourself who teach salvation is maintained and revocable.

The strife is because of those who contend against a false gospel and that is by absolute necessity on our part ......because history has shown over and over again that truth must be protected.

It doesn't help when you accuse of things never said either. Why can't we just look at Scripture and believe what God says? Continuing to stir the pot by falsely accusing is not productive.

 

[EleventhHour]

If only OSAS proponents would make that clear from the start - that good works/obedience flow from gratitude and love. Unfortunately many don't and now we have this perverse complacency in the church, and a false belief that continued sin is ok.

Your job then is to better understand and not follow liars who seek to malign the Gospel.

And we all still sin and it has nothing to do with it being okay,... just a slanderous position some like to make.

 

[EleventhHour]

It doesn't help when you accuse of things never said either. Why can't we just look at Scripture and believe what God says? Continuing to stir the pot by falsely accusing is not productive.

So state your position clearly... does willful sin cause the loss of salvation?

 

[oyster67]

Are you saying salvation is lost through adultery? That would also mean any unclean thought. God help us all. Oh yeah, He has by forever imputing His righteousness to us.

When that becomes your chosen lifestyle??? Of course you are bound for hell. You have esentiallly spat upon the Atonement which cost my dear Lord so much. This attitude is very disturbing. Am I the only one here that finds this lack of appreciation for God's grace disturbing?

Hebrews 10
10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is crystal clear, folks. This does not contradict Grace. It upholds it to the high place that it belongs. Why do people want to see if they can get away with crapping all over God's marvelous and wonderful grace???