Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

And you are a deceptive liar....and by your own admission lost.....Hiw do I know this....you just failed your own gospel test by lying about me openly and accusing me of the above.....you cannot even keep your own false gospel of works deceiver!

Everyone pay attention to this deceiver Chris...he peddles a self saving gospel based upon obedience and in the same breath lies openly about me saying Inwant to live in sin and grace at the same time...and the three other false teachers that liked the post liked Chris sinning openly....good luck deceivers

Shows the depths to which they must descend to promote their self saving Gospel...they have to malign grace and the actual work of the cross.

A completely ignorant post.......
Man, what I want to write.... best I stop.

 

[Judges1318]

sorry, but the criteria you listed in the Galatians quote, if I am reading you correctly, is incorrect. Calvinists do teach that a believer may lapse for a season, even a long season, and come back, or more properly, be restored by Grace.

I'm thinking if you check in with a Calvinist believer in this forum you'll see that they believe 1 John 2:19 means the true believer will never leave the faith or it shows him to have never been a real believer. Now I'm used to people changing their colors when you confront them about things, but maybe they'll be honest and stick to their argument and tell you that's what 1 John 2:19 means in Calvinism without adding some kind of caveat to it.

John McArthur believes in practical holiness, as do all true Christians.

'Believes in practical holiness'. What does that mean to them?

There are many in this forum and other forums that believe since they have been elected to salvation they do not have to live holy lives to be saved, but then of course they will talk about how they will want to, blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying that means they will indulge themselves of the right not to. It means they can if they want.

 

[Judges1318]

I am not a calvinist, but I have read and listened to them, and they do not teach what you claim they teach

As far as “ you’re saved no matter what you do or think”, read post 118,734 very carefully. And get back to me

Can't read that post right now, but let's just cut to the chase.

Calvinism, irregardless of it's various offshoots, has spawned this vein of thought in the church (which is now a flowing out of control river) that since God picked you to be a believer, and others to not be a believer, there is nothing you can do, say, or think, or feel to change that. All once saved always saved beliefs, no matter the flavor and the details involved, is predicated on this fundamental Calvinist understanding of what it says 'election' means.

 

[EleventhHour]

I think the paradigm of once saved always saved, which is the foundation of the message of Calvary, can very often generate in its wake the worst behaved people who, thinking themselves saved, believe they may speak to others as one aligned with the Devil and still rest assured they are eternally one with Christ. Is it surprising then that such deviant behavior would cause others to question the veracity of OSAS when its proponent acts evilly toward others and therein demonstrates no thing has been regenerated in them at all.

I think you have missed the boat on this post .......those that preach an absolutely false doctrine of works (NOSAS) are the ones that against Christ both in word and deed.

So where is the evil...with those against Christ or those who uphold only Christ?

Think hard before you answer.

 

[Hevosmies]

Can't read that post right now, but let's just cut to the chase.

Calvinism, irregardless of it's various offshoots, has spawned this vein of thought in the church (which is now a flowing out of control river) that since God picked you to be a believer, and others to not be a believer, there is nothing you can do, say, or think, or feel to change that. All once saved always saved beliefs, no matter the flavor and the details involved, is predicated on this fundamental Calvinist understanding of what it says 'election' means.

Lets talk turkey then HOMESLICE

What does Romans 8:28-30 mean? WHY is it not the golden chain of redemption?

Come to think of it, WHY does the Bible even talk about election if it aint the CASE that certain people are ELECT of God. Many are called few are CHOSEN, mine ELECT, folks gon be deceived except for the ELECT, who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's ELECT, God has CHOSEN certain type of people not many wise, for the ELECT's sake the days are shortened.

 

[Lightskin]

The Bible tells us to give up earthly things.

You’re a member of a chat group using a phone and/or computer.That’s pretty earthly.

 

[Hevosmies]

You’re a member of a chat group using a phone and/or computer.That’s pretty earthly.

Be not conformed to this world. Can yall heretics stop using the internet?

 

[Judges1318]

Lets talk turkey then HOMESLICE

What does Romans 8:28-30 mean? WHY is it not the golden chain of redemption?

Come to think of it, WHY does the Bible even talk about election if it aint the CASE that certain people are ELECT of God. Many are called few are CHOSEN, mine ELECT, folks gon be deceived except for the ELECT, who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's ELECT, God has CHOSEN certain type of people not many wise, for the ELECT's sake the days are shortened.

The bottom line is you need to open your mind up to know there is an alternate understanding to what election actually means. Calvinism is only one understanding of what election means.

 

[Hevosmies]

The bottom line is you need to open your mind up to know there is an alternate understanding to what election actually means. Calvinism is only one understanding of what election means.

Aiight. I got my mind opened up right now (dont worry I didnt take nothing) so gimme gimme. WHAT alternative understanding can you offer me?

 

[Judges1318]

King James Bible 1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus

Why does the person who is saved, and who's salvation can not be undone, have to die so he can be saved when Jesus comes back?????

 

[Judges1318]

Aiight. I got my mind opened up right now (dont worry I didnt take nothing) so gimme gimme. WHAT alternative understanding can you offer me?

For starters, you are elected (chosen) on the basis of faith in Christ, not because you were predetermined (as in pre-manufactured) to be a believer.

God predetermined beforehand way in advance that the blessing would come through the way of faith, not works. But Calvin understands that as meaning YOU personally were predetermined, as in manufactured, to be a believer, not an unbeliever.

 

[EleventhHour]

written to the save saved -->where sin ABOUNDS, GRACE ABOUNDS THE MORE.....make no mistake pal, you skew the word constantly and walk as an enemy of Jesus....your time will come!

Preaching against grace and the Gospel based on grace..... comes from a heart of unbelief

 

[Lightskin]

There should be a simple test. Is the believer free to return to their previous lifestyle having once believed in Christ for salvation?

Of course we are FREE to do so, but how many people do you know return to the enslavement of sin rather than remain FREE in Christ? Answer: <3

 

[Judges1318]

babies aren't the ones who have birth pangs in birth.

Very, very few Calvinists here.

You haven't read Grace Abounding to the Chief of SInners by John Bunyun have you? Or Pilgrim's Progress?

The brush you paint with is far too broad.

You're not getting what I'm saying.
If babies are born in Christ so easily and automatically because God just causes believing to show up in that person, why the birth pangs associated with bringing people to Christ, like in the case of the Galatians?

 

[Judges1318]

Of course we are FREE to do so, but how many people do you know return to the enslavement of sin rather than remain FREE in Christ? Answer: <3

All it takes is ONE for 1 john 2:19 to not mean what once saved always saved insists that it means. And we have a whole bunch of them in the Galatian church to show us 'leaving' does NOT show you to have never been a believer.

 

[Hevosmies]

For starters, you are elected (chosen) on the basis of faith in Christ, not because you were predetermined (as in pre-manufactured) to be a believer.

God predetermined beforehand way in advance that the blessing would come through the way of faith, not works. But Calvin understands that as meaning YOU personally were predetermined, as in manufactured, to be a believer, not an unbeliever.

You choose yourself then God chooses you. Dont sound like election, sounds like self-appointing. If you tell me more about what you mean by predetermined or pre-manufactured means, maybe then you got a point and it means actual election, God choosing.

 

[Lightskin]

Then why do OSAS people say they are always saved regardless of what they do?

The saving power of Jesus Christ is more powerful than the condemning power of our sin. That is exactly what you fail to comprehend hence why you believe your works maintain salvation.

 

[Discern]

Can't read that post right now, but let's just cut to the chase.

Calvinism, irregardless of it's various offshoots, has spawned this vein of thought in the church (which is now a flowing out of control river) that since God picked you to be a believer, and others to not be a believer, there is nothing you can do, say, or think, or feel to change that. All once saved always saved beliefs, no matter the flavor and the details involved, is predicated on this fundamental Calvinist understanding of what it says 'election' means.

No. Not all osas people agree with Calvinism.

 

[Lightskin]

Preaching against grace and the Gospel based on grace..... comes from a heart of unbelief

Prolific. 😎

 

[Hevosmies]

Of course we are FREE to do so, but how many people do you know return to the enslavement of sin rather than remain FREE in Christ? Answer: <3

Well from my experience, most professing Christians dont even LEAVE the sin so they dont return to it, they aint never left!

We got the list of excuses piled up:
-Im addicted
-I cant help it
-Im weak
-My husband or wife sucks
-I got financial problems
-I got anxiety
-I got mental problems
-*insert excuse here*

I've heard it all, and ive also seen it all be OVERCOME by dedication. If people want to change they can do everything, we can do ALL THINGS through Christ. So that means if you take it seriously you can quit WHATEVER sin you want to quit on a PRACTICAL LEVEL, now, when it comes to sins in THOUGHTS, that might be more difficult to overcome

Its like I always say, how to stop X Y and Z sin? "DONT DO IT!" thats really easy and simple. Its just that folks dont wanna do it, but no one is forcing us to sin and God said He never tempts before above what they can handle and has provided a way out, thats how we know we aint got no excuse. BTW: as im typing this im not saying im no super Christian who dont sin, im just saying we all HAVE THE CAPABILITY and OPTION given to us by God to not indulge in sin!

THE SPIRIT IS WILLING but the FLESH is weak. We can get off of work for two weeks on vacation, but when it comes to gettingo off of work for a mission trip, EVERYONE GOTTA WORK all of a sudden, aint that right