Not By Works

[PS]

This spiritual bum quoting the OT. You wanna talk about intellectual dishonesty? Merry Christmas to you as well PS. Last time I checked you thought the OT god was evil? Did you man up and admit God COMMANDED to WIPE OUT the entire CANAANITE nation? Punished Saul later down the line for refusing to take out everyone?

.
I should have included 1Th_4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his Holy Spirit. (The Holy Spirit will flee away.)

The people (Israelites) followed false satanic gods.

The Christian way, the way of the I AM is like this : -
Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God: for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord. (Deuteronomy 32:35)

But if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him to drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Rom 12:19-21)

 

[Hevosmies]

No Christian or Church during Christ’s ministry on earth. Yes, the Church is made up of former Jew and Gentile.

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


Jesus speaking of "the church" during His earthly ministry, as a present reality? HMM!?

 

[Judges1318]

I will start it: LETS DISCUSS John 6 where Jesus makes it clear that those who COME to Him are NEVER cast away and WILL BE RAISED (no ifs or buts) on the last day.

Notice, the promise of eternal life and being kept is for those who presently believe, not for those who don't believe anymore. The promise is conditioned on present, ongoing believing.

Hebrews 10:29 talks about the person who used to believe in the blood of Christ and was sanctified by that blood, but who then trampled on the blood of Christ in unbelief. God's punishment for doing that is not the punishment a Father gives to a beloved son. God's punishment for doing that is the punishment he has reserved for his enemies.

 

[Chris1975]

Yet I see this as an issue,

you put Christ on, or as we used to say it’s like us as the wife only go to see our husband for a few hour on Sunday and an hour wed night, and want nothing to do with him the rest of the week, we think because we give him those few hours, we are being good spouses, and should be praised for what we give.

and then wonder why we never grow,

Or...Jesus says "depart from me, I never knew you"

 

[Hevosmies]

Notice, the promise of eternal life and being kept is for those who presently believe, not for those who don't believe anymore. The promise is conditioned on present, ongoing believing.

Hebrews 10:29 talks about the person who used to believe in the blood of Christ and was sanctified by that blood, but who then trampled on the blood of Christ in unbelief. God's punishment for doing that is not the punishment a Father gives to a beloved son. God's punishment for doing that is the punishment he has reserved for his enemies.

IN OTHER WORDS, You are saying Jesus LOST one of the SHEEP? The Jesus of the Bible says: I will lose NONE of those who the Father gives me.

The good shepherd will not lose a SINGLE SHEEP!

What kind of a LOSER God do you serve?

 

[mailmandan]

The saved Galatians left.
You say 1 John 2:19 means they weren't saved.
That's pitting scripture against scripture.
My doctrine does not do that.

You left off the first part of the verse:

"24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning." - 1 John 2:24

That is not descriptive.

We know it's not a descriptive passage, just by the simple fact that the believing Galatians left. Apparently, 1 John 2:24 was not very 'descriptive' of those genuine believers. Your doctrine pits scripture against scripture.

Getting temporarily side tracked by false teachers doesn’t mean the saved Galatians left. You are jumping to conclusions and 1 John 2:19 is not in conflict with the saved Galatians here.

The second half of 1 John 2:24 confirms descriptive. 1 John 2:24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. 26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

So it’s your doctrine that pits scripture against scripture.

 

[Judges1318]

What should I do now?

Keep yourself in God's love by holding fast to what you heard at first, for that is the condition for retaining the promise of what is to come.

 

[Judges1318]

IN OTHER WORDS, You are saying Jesus LOST one of the SHEEP? The Jesus of the Bible says: I will lose NONE of those who the Father gives me.

The good shepherd will not lose a SINGLE SHEEP!

What kind of a LOSER God do you serve?

The promise of not being lost is for believers, not for ex-believers.

 

[Chris1975]

@mailmandan surely you must feel like this by now .......

Mailmandan never feels like that.

 

[Chris1975]

The Church, the body of Christ is never referred to as sheep. This is a reference for Jews. Paul never uses the term sheep in reference of the Church. We’re His body, not sheep.

Now the OSASSERS are disagreeing with one another.

 

[John146]

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


Jesus speaking of "the church" during His earthly ministry, as a present reality? HMM!?

The nation of Israel was God’s church until the resurrection and Christ starting building His own Church. Church = gathering

Jesus said, I will, future tense, build my church.

 

[Hevosmies]

The promise of not being lost is for believers, not for ex-believers.

UHH....... Ex-believers would mean EX-sheep in your vocabulary? Jesus LOSING one of the sheep then, which the Bible says HE WONT DO. If you say that it means Jesus wont lose any of those who PRESENTLY BELIEVE who are sheep then, it brings TWO major problems:

1. It attacks God's sovereignity, foreknowledge and predestination (unless you are an open theist or something, we got a buncha folks out here these days)
2. There is NO REASON for Jesus to say No one will pluck them out of my hands or anything, because its not really JESUS keeping them as the Bible teaches, but their OWN FAITHFULNESS, so Jesus cant make that promise in your view. You can only make a pact with yourself.

IT MAKES ME SICK how some of you guys leave God out the picture completely. I want VOMIT on the keyboard !

 

[John146]

Now the OSASSERS are disagreeing with one another.

If you’re not osas, you’ll never be saved.

 

[Chris1975]

Wholeheartedly agreed! Not even our own actions can separate us from Christ.

Let's see how that pans out.

 

[Hevosmies]

Now the OSASSERS are disagreeing with one another.

This got nothing to do with OSAS, its about SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGIES more so, or eschatology, ecclesiology.

John is a KJVonly DISPENSATIONAL believer, I am NOT, which means he believes CHURCH DOCTRINE is from Romans to Philemon, whereas I believe Jesus' words are for the Church as well for the most part.

 

[NayborBear]

1 Cor 12 is not about the gift of salvation.. anyway I am confused by your posts..so let us leave it at that.

No! It isn't! Is it?
Yet? That's ALL you OSAS'ers, in y'alls "cherry picking" even Paul's teachings, CARE about!
Y'all don't WANNA "covet earnestly" the best gifts!
Because that would require WORKS, "beyond the principles of the doctrine of Christ!"
Which "blows away" OSAS'ers "the gift of salvation, and not spiritual gifts, are all we are interested in!"

 

[Judges1318]

Getting temporarily side tracked by false teachers doesn’t mean the saved Galatians left. You are jumping to conclusions and 1 John 2:19 is not in conflict with the saved Galatians here.

The second half of 1 John 2:24 confirms descriptive. 1 John 2:24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. 26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

So it’s your doctrine that pits scripture against scripture.

No, the Galatians left justification in Christ:

"how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain." - Galatians 4:9-10 KJV

It's clear they departed from trust in Christ for justification--the gospel they first received--and were serving another gospel, a gospel of the works of the law for justification. Paul made it clear that you have fallen from grace and lose the effect of Christ in justification when you do that.

"4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." - Galatians 5:4 KJV

Once saved always saved has to make so many verses not really mean what they say.

 

[John146]

There is NO REASON for Jesus to say No one will pluck them out of my hands

We’re not just being held in His hands, We are His hands! Amen! We are part of His body! Do these guys think the Lord will separate part of His own body?

 

[John146]

Let's see how that pans out.

Hope you’re doing enough. You’ll get to boast when you get to heaven I guess.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I appreciate the heart and thumbs up but an answer would be even better, what should I do now?

@eternally-gratefull @EleventhHour @mailmandan

Study, it took me years to figure out passages like James 2 and acts 2 could not resolve them until I really stopped to look. at them (if i am honest with myself. They scared me because they made me question my belief. Maybe osas and my thoughts on baptism were wrong) I had to lower my pride and actually study and ask help, Ten I finally realized what Peter and james really said, It opened my eyes to other passages as well. An scripture opened up in a harmonious way I ne’er fathomed. But first I had to set aside everything I was taught. And prety much start over. Because a lot I was taught I found to be wrong.